6 | AJ Johansson - How TAK Is Becoming The Backbone Of Disaster Data Sharing

WEBVTT

00:09.177 --> 00:12.882
[SPEAKER_01]: Attention, buckle in, shelter in place and prepare.

00:13.723 --> 00:15.606
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the disaster field show.

00:17.588 --> 00:20.292
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't care what job you have to get good at it.

00:21.193 --> 00:22.154
[SPEAKER_03]: Does take treaty?

00:23.676 --> 00:31.607
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really the entire logistical infrastructure in the back end, where it becomes resource management, you know, what's going on situation awareness wise,

00:33.038 --> 00:43.253
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have tack-based technology on all responder crews everywhere because everything I know about it says it It's it's the game changer, right?

00:44.294 --> 00:55.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Real disaster stories told by those on the ground and in the air Follow by disaster field after action review that turns the lessons learned into actionable takeaways

01:06.670 --> 01:09.233
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so back on the disaster field show here.

01:09.754 --> 01:13.017
[SPEAKER_02]: With us today, we have AJ Joe Hansen out of California.

01:13.898 --> 01:26.453
[SPEAKER_02]: AJ's a fire captain for the Corona Fire Department, and he's got a wealth and knowledge in emergency management and all things tack as we call it.

01:26.533 --> 01:34.382
[SPEAKER_02]: So obviously, today, we want to bring on your cell

01:34.362 --> 01:46.498
[SPEAKER_02]: what it is and where the world's going as we see it here today and of course I got Steve Newton as my co-host here today and we just wanted to get it out on the table so how are you doing?

01:47.272 --> 01:48.013
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing well.

01:48.213 --> 01:49.896
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you guys doing doing great?

01:50.237 --> 01:57.528
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's been a it's been a ride here the last last couple of years of obviously throwing some curveballs out there for a little bit of everybody.

01:58.049 --> 02:04.960
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, especially for you guys down there, but I'll let you I'll let you share your story a little bit if you don't mind.

02:05.058 --> 02:09.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the the tech world.

02:09.669 --> 02:11.854
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, curious about it.

02:11.874 --> 02:18.449
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I've been I started my career in 1993 gotten a fire service right out of high school.

02:18.469 --> 02:24.282
[SPEAKER_03]: I shoot my senior year Went to a little career fair at the high school and

02:24.852 --> 02:28.296
[SPEAKER_03]: I always thought I'd wear a uniform of some sort.

02:28.536 --> 02:32.500
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was either military or I wanted to be a lifeguard.

02:32.540 --> 02:34.082
[SPEAKER_03]: I was kind of considered fire.

02:34.202 --> 02:36.425
[SPEAKER_03]: My grandfather was a firefighter.

02:36.785 --> 02:39.568
[SPEAKER_03]: My uncle was a Ellie County Sheriff.

02:39.708 --> 02:43.873
[SPEAKER_03]: My aunt was a parametically us ladies on nurse.

02:43.893 --> 02:47.457
[SPEAKER_03]: He used to ride out with the parametics in LA at the beginning of parameticine.

02:48.398 --> 02:54.825
[SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of always had that sort of draw, but to always be kind of part of a team and wear some sort of uniform.

02:55.278 --> 03:18.113
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to a career fair and I met a gentleman there who was staffing a booth, who worked for was before was California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, we called it CDF back then and we were you know green pants and tan shirts and I said hey I want to I want to do this and he said I would have this fire station and they're having

03:18.093 --> 03:26.323
[SPEAKER_03]: This is for the explorers, and I met a captain there and listened to Michael and he said, no, you want to go to another fire station to talk to this captain and be a volunteer.

03:26.524 --> 03:29.868
[SPEAKER_03]: These explorers stuff, you're a senior, you can go right on the fire engine.

03:30.549 --> 03:36.136
[SPEAKER_03]: So walk to the door and I was 17 and a half and have my mom signed it back in the application to give it okay.

03:37.498 --> 03:40.501
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, kind of changed my my life.

03:40.601 --> 03:42.284
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't doing great in school.

03:42.324 --> 03:43.425
[SPEAKER_03]: My senior year.

03:44.114 --> 03:47.513
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can pass with a 1.8 3GPA anymore.

03:48.599 --> 03:49.705
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that's allowed.

03:49.745 --> 03:51.897
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we can't get to that.

03:52.332 --> 03:55.316
[SPEAKER_03]: hit that for my children, of course, that didn't happen.

03:55.917 --> 03:58.340
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's a different era.

03:58.620 --> 04:00.683
[SPEAKER_03]: But it really gave me a lot of drive.

04:00.703 --> 04:04.127
[SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of, that wasn't in the drugs.

04:04.267 --> 04:05.168
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll call on you like that.

04:05.208 --> 04:07.071
[SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't know what I was going to do with my life.

04:07.451 --> 04:10.635
[SPEAKER_03]: For your university, it was not kind of my trap.

04:11.536 --> 04:13.539
[SPEAKER_03]: And I liked doing stuff.

04:14.060 --> 04:17.424
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the fire service was perfect.

04:17.444 --> 04:21.529
[SPEAKER_03]: I had some great mentors out of that fire station

04:21.509 --> 04:22.872
[SPEAKER_03]: as a young person.

04:22.912 --> 04:28.985
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, out of that fire station, we are frost staffed with the Forest Service.

04:29.005 --> 04:40.851
[SPEAKER_03]: So as a Riverside County Fire Station with Cal Fire and their CDF back then, and then a green green fire engine, and my next season of the next fire season, I got hired with the Forest Service.

04:40.831 --> 04:47.378
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I started on engine and quickly got on a hot dark crew and spent the next five seasons there.

04:47.418 --> 04:56.929
[SPEAKER_03]: And can I travel in the western United States by and fire all over the place without water really busts in your ass, pet mine and finding helicopters.

04:56.989 --> 04:59.532
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really, really loved it.

05:00.233 --> 05:02.175
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was kind of a radio nerd.

05:02.435 --> 05:09.083
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just kind of like electronics and I had a

05:09.670 --> 05:22.887
[SPEAKER_03]: a comms guy in the military and taught me all about a radio's work that I remember when we got our first GPS and that was just astonishing, you know, and I was, you know, training the rest of the crew how to use the radios.

05:22.947 --> 05:35.003
[SPEAKER_03]: In a way, fast forward, I leave there, I went to paramedic school, then got hired with CDF and as a as a far far paramedic, and we're still doing wildland fire stuff.

05:35.287 --> 05:39.399
[SPEAKER_03]: And last there in 2005 went to Corona and I've been there for 20 years.

05:39.500 --> 05:44.595
[SPEAKER_03]: Still very attached to Wildfire, even though we're local government and Wildfire is not our main mission.

05:44.635 --> 05:46.039
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a big part of our mission week.

05:46.576 --> 06:07.673
[SPEAKER_03]: We board a califier as a U.S. forward service and I got out on incident management teams at that for about 10 years working in situation kind of back to the technology side, you know working with GIS making maps army intel operations with better intel and kind of watched as technology intersected.

06:08.108 --> 06:20.422
[SPEAKER_03]: This space, because remember when I heard in the fire service, when we got a call, I wrote it down on a piece of paper, and I hopped in a fire engine and I pulled a paper map out and navigated, you know, we had one radio.

06:21.505 --> 06:21.966
[SPEAKER_03]: And

06:22.300 --> 06:33.457
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, liking electronics and and kind of I think and we'll talk about tech, but I think but really makes me so passionate about tech as I remember what it's like to do it without this stuff.

06:34.358 --> 06:40.107
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep and how difficult it can be to try to explain to people where where you are.

06:40.441 --> 06:41.563
[SPEAKER_03]: and what's going on.

06:41.663 --> 06:46.731
[SPEAKER_03]: So 2018, I've got off incident management teams.

06:46.751 --> 06:48.033
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to finish up my degree.

06:49.214 --> 06:55.604
[SPEAKER_03]: So despite the 1.83 graduate GPA, I ended up getting my master's degree in GIS.

06:56.385 --> 07:01.293
[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, don't let that high school thing go.

07:01.313 --> 07:04.778
[SPEAKER_03]: But, um,

07:05.433 --> 07:07.758
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've always been a GIS hack.

07:07.778 --> 07:10.024
[SPEAKER_03]: I really wanted to get some more information.

07:10.084 --> 07:19.365
[SPEAKER_03]: And really, my degree is in remote sensing, what concentration GIS, so not just making maps, but really understanding things at a distance.

07:20.067 --> 07:24.437
[SPEAKER_03]: So 2019, I end up subbing on incident management team.

07:24.637 --> 07:26.439
[SPEAKER_03]: I got off the teams in 16.

07:26.739 --> 07:27.860
[SPEAKER_03]: We were just super busy.

07:27.900 --> 07:30.562
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to finish my degree, and it just wasn't working out time and was.

07:31.663 --> 07:39.911
[SPEAKER_03]: And just, you know, we had an incident in Northern California, the Mendocino Complex a guy couldn't go and asked if I could film and form.

07:39.931 --> 07:48.819
[SPEAKER_03]: And I went up there and I was working in a situation but filling out the ICS 2 and 9 form twice a day, which is really an incident summary.

07:49.460 --> 07:50.641
[SPEAKER_03]: Fix a couple hours of time.

07:50.681 --> 07:52.162
[SPEAKER_03]: The middle of the day had a lot of downtime.

07:52.442 --> 07:54.424
[SPEAKER_03]: And I noticed the guard was there.

07:54.708 --> 08:08.362
[SPEAKER_03]: And in 2014, the National Guard used MQ1 over the Ferguson Fire I believe it was one of the fires I was on the board meeting at Yosemite and it was kind of like revolutionary.

08:08.482 --> 08:22.437
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh man, we're using this military technology to put, you know, a sensor on a map and and then they started

08:22.737 --> 08:30.389
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I noticed that the guard had a trailer there and I thought during the day, all right, I'm going to go with a knockout of the door and kind of seeing how this is working.

08:31.871 --> 08:42.688
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they had a live video feed up in a window and then they had Google Maps and another window with our operations map and that which they had to manually geo reference, router sheet onto Google Earth.

08:44.010 --> 08:45.612
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was like, oh, that was kind of cool.

08:46.033 --> 08:50.500
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can see the sensor and they're bringing a camera link of the sensor.

08:51.188 --> 08:53.673
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, they are about to put interest in a way.

08:53.693 --> 08:53.933
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

08:53.953 --> 08:54.394
[SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.

08:55.536 --> 09:04.212
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then a few days later, um, I got a phone call from the Skyer at Gousen, um, what the time was working for the four services radio technician.

09:05.034 --> 09:13.349
[SPEAKER_03]: And one sort of short, she tells me, oh, with the phone, um, I didn't get a warning shot from a friend of mine who he had contacted first over LinkedIn.

09:14.091 --> 09:14.732
[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh,

09:15.691 --> 09:21.225
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, hey, this guy, talking to this platform, I told one was a fire that you like technology, you might listen to them.

09:21.546 --> 09:30.628
[SPEAKER_03]: And so just on Eric's death, just explaining what a tack was over the phone, it prompted me to.

09:31.469 --> 09:38.280
[SPEAKER_03]: go to the local, when I got our shift at night, I went to the Walmart and bought the nicest Samsung I could get, which was like a tad a.

09:38.461 --> 09:42.587
[SPEAKER_03]: And I learned to tack.

09:43.228 --> 09:48.076
[SPEAKER_03]: And, um, and he says, hey, you know, I know you haven't ensured nine over you.

09:48.136 --> 09:49.178
[SPEAKER_03]: How would you like to have that?

09:49.238 --> 09:53.325
[SPEAKER_03]: And not walk to the Windows machine, but in your hands.

09:53.761 --> 10:05.003
[SPEAKER_03]: And would you like to have the operations map and we'll work through that workflow, it felt a little bit about like war games, if you're familiar with that movie, we were actually.

10:05.810 --> 10:10.495
[SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead and Eric, the ATAC kid kind of like Matthew Broderick was were like, what are we doing here?

10:10.535 --> 10:13.399
[SPEAKER_03]: And I did get a hold of my leadership at Calfire.

10:13.459 --> 10:15.081
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, yeah, you can do all this stuff.

10:15.641 --> 10:16.422
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's try it out.

10:16.542 --> 10:24.992
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was so and tactfully took this off that fire and took us up the northern coast to ready to kind of do some tack briefings and someone so forward.

10:25.032 --> 10:29.117
[SPEAKER_03]: So I took him back to my department and I said, hey, look at this, look at this platform.

10:29.452 --> 10:35.823
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the campfire happened in northern California, and I just happened to be studying again that week.

10:35.843 --> 10:39.469
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, okay, let's do some other stuff.

10:39.489 --> 10:49.285
[SPEAKER_03]: We had bowling show up with a never in situ team and we ended up doing a UAS stuff at night and putting all intact.

10:49.305 --> 10:50.327
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, we got to get us.

10:50.347 --> 10:51.088
[SPEAKER_03]: So.

10:51.423 --> 10:55.508
[SPEAKER_03]: At that point, we're like, we're going to do this at Corona fire.

10:55.548 --> 10:57.451
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll see a small bit of level right.

10:58.312 --> 11:12.250
[SPEAKER_03]: But now it's kind of wouldn't say it's I guess my wife would say it's taken over my life a little bit, but I didn't notice from the license.

11:13.276 --> 11:16.379
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've become a kind of an evangelist for tech.

11:16.439 --> 11:24.086
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe in it, and I'm happy to share with people this kind of groundbreaking technology and how it can help them.

11:24.106 --> 11:29.371
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, fast forward seven years later, here I'm on a podcast with Cole.

11:30.172 --> 11:33.555
[SPEAKER_03]: One minute, a couple of years ago, over some tech stuff.

11:33.575 --> 11:36.918
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, we've been kind of collaborative, since.

11:37.118 --> 11:41.022
[SPEAKER_00]: So evangelist for tech is exactly the phrase,

11:41.002 --> 11:45.707
[SPEAKER_00]: that I had in my mind when I was driving down this morning, because I followed a bunch of your stuff, right?

11:45.968 --> 11:53.436
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you and I have never met, but I got a pretty good sense that when you say evangelists, it's got an uppercase E at the beginning of it for this.

11:54.177 --> 11:54.878
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

11:55.098 --> 11:56.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

11:56.179 --> 12:00.984
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's always called the millimeter hand of tack, the reverend of tack.

12:01.625 --> 12:07.752
[SPEAKER_03]: And really, though, I've got a video on my YouTube channel from my presentation offsite a couple years ago.

12:08.272 --> 12:13.600
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I am presenting a couple of years and they're like, hey, hey, Jay, we've got this window and it was like, hey, do you want to?

12:14.362 --> 12:16.064
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, sure, and I was like, what do I talk about?

12:16.084 --> 12:21.953
[SPEAKER_03]: I really wanted to give it tribute to what it took to like, get tapped to where we're at today.

12:21.973 --> 12:29.385
[SPEAKER_03]: How how it all came across my lap and to really give, you know, respect to those that,

12:29.770 --> 12:35.478
[SPEAKER_03]: that will perform me and then really, you know, a vandalist to get it out there.

12:35.518 --> 12:36.819
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause it's not for sale, right?

12:36.859 --> 12:40.224
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's no, there's no marketing for it.

12:40.384 --> 12:41.786
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not at a trade show.

12:41.806 --> 12:42.747
[SPEAKER_03]: No.

12:42.767 --> 12:48.054
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's getting more popular, you know, folks like you guys bring it in to your system.

12:48.095 --> 12:50.458
[SPEAKER_03]: Other folks do kind of tack as a service.

12:51.559 --> 12:56.706
[SPEAKER_03]: But it is one of those kind of, I always call the best thing you've never heard about.

12:57.023 --> 12:59.206
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's it's it's pretty cool.

12:59.427 --> 13:00.789
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me let me ask you about it.

13:00.909 --> 13:21.782
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've obviously been to a lot of a lot of major major events with a wildfire, whatever, they may be what, what's kind of like the This, if you tell me there, everybody has that one kind of disaster or that one event that sort of like, you know, you can go back to on the on, you know, on the drop of a dime.

13:21.762 --> 13:35.262
[SPEAKER_02]: what's that event for you like what was one of the most impactful events that that had you kind of understand where communication fails were chaos just absolutely hell goes a hand basket like can you give us a bit of an overview of that?

13:36.724 --> 13:48.681
[SPEAKER_03]: You know I never really had any personally or I've been really I mean obviously you've been on those incidents where but I was kind of like the all kind of blood together like really before attack like that sort of like

13:49.015 --> 13:53.460
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, lack of understanding of what's going on.

13:53.500 --> 13:58.366
[SPEAKER_03]: We seem to make it work, but I haven't really had me that have like a horrible outcome.

13:58.587 --> 14:00.729
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we've always just sort of got through it.

14:01.190 --> 14:10.761
[SPEAKER_03]: I think probably due to sound tactics, you know, making safe decisions, although there was some confusion of what was going on and where no one got in a pickle.

14:13.004 --> 14:17.149
[SPEAKER_03]: But I go back to a lot and I reflect back on like,

14:17.703 --> 14:25.985
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, technology, we're emanating in fact, you know, I think about brand-owned hotshots, you know, a lot, you know, a lot of that confusion.

14:26.246 --> 14:29.755
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got the radio traffic to back it up.

14:30.275 --> 14:40.335
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you know, they made mistakes, they made poor, you know, they ignored existing rules of engagement, they made a bad mistake, but that's what humans do.

14:41.157 --> 14:42.159
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we made mistakes.

14:42.339 --> 14:43.982
[SPEAKER_03]: Human factors are human factors.

14:44.042 --> 14:48.992
[SPEAKER_03]: When I started the fire service, we played 13 situations that shot watch out for one.

14:49.158 --> 14:52.803
[SPEAKER_03]: and for those not familiar, they're supposed to be these kind of cues.

14:52.883 --> 14:56.869
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, if these things are occurring, perk up, watch out.

14:57.429 --> 14:58.671
[SPEAKER_03]: You start getting multiple.

14:58.711 --> 15:07.543
[SPEAKER_03]: You really need to sit there and go, okay, you know, one of my doing here, and I'm gonna be effective by, by I get myself into, in a pickle here.

15:08.525 --> 15:10.828
[SPEAKER_03]: And in 1994, we had a,

15:11.534 --> 15:17.844
[SPEAKER_03]: a wildfire in Colorado that killed, I think, 12 people, and this is some of our best, right?

15:18.005 --> 15:27.140
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm jumping for hot shots, you know, helicopters, things like the tip of the spear folks, main mistakes, and we end up with five more situations.

15:27.180 --> 15:36.495
[SPEAKER_03]: So we go to 18, you know, we burn over 19 folks on that fire in Arizona, and we don't add any more

15:36.897 --> 15:37.398
[SPEAKER_03]: rules.

15:37.558 --> 15:43.124
[SPEAKER_03]: They broke existing rules of engagement and I think really too mad at that was kind of like first shattering.

15:45.627 --> 15:47.569
[SPEAKER_03]: But people made mistakes.

15:47.669 --> 15:57.721
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I where I see technology intersecting that is not a surgery or big speed, you know, should I go do this?

15:57.941 --> 15:58.602
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it safe?

15:58.702 --> 16:02.266
[SPEAKER_03]: No, we drill and we train for those sort of things.

16:02.466 --> 16:06.010
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think technology can kind of help us

16:06.952 --> 16:08.234
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I was going to play tricks on it.

16:08.254 --> 16:18.891
[SPEAKER_03]: When I think about what Grant had not was trying to do to get to that spot, you know, using tools like tack to draw online, you can go, how far away is that?

16:18.951 --> 16:20.313
[SPEAKER_03]: What does the terrain look like?

16:20.354 --> 16:21.656
[SPEAKER_03]: Because your ice can play tricks in you.

16:21.696 --> 16:27.745
[SPEAKER_03]: If you've been to a lot of far before you think, you're driving there, oh, the smoke is just on the other side of the ridge.

16:28.487 --> 16:30.390
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, oh, that was two ridges ago.

16:30.510 --> 16:33.094
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's further away than I think.

16:33.935 --> 16:39.210
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know the flight technology like we have in California with the virus program and mapping parameters.

16:39.411 --> 16:46.712
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if we have an Intel plane up that can map the perimeter, cameras and getting a better understanding of where is the fire currently.

16:46.861 --> 17:03.304
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they took a gamble cutting through the green and ended up getting caught and even going as high as, you know, is there a digital safety officer, a retired, a friend of mine from Cal Fire Rich Rose and kind of coined this term digital safety officer?

17:03.324 --> 17:07.890
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there some of them watching that maybe with an assistant that

17:08.697 --> 17:14.349
[SPEAKER_03]: is looking at, as we call the little skittles, the dots of the map, the tackies, there's move around on the map.

17:14.369 --> 17:24.732
[SPEAKER_03]: But if there are an intersection for disaster, maybe a checking on the radio, what is your intent where are you going, did you know the fire was over here?

17:25.825 --> 17:29.229
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the last is everything fails.

17:30.090 --> 17:31.211
[SPEAKER_03]: You've made that decision.

17:31.251 --> 17:33.334
[SPEAKER_03]: You are deploying your fire shelter now.

17:34.155 --> 17:37.398
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you are calling for help, we know exactly where you are.

17:37.579 --> 17:39.861
[SPEAKER_03]: And might make for better outcome.

17:39.961 --> 17:43.485
[SPEAKER_03]: We can at least be prepared to understand where you are.

17:43.526 --> 17:48.371
[SPEAKER_03]: On the R&L, I'm going to grab a mountain and get burned over.

17:48.411 --> 17:50.854
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a fully loaded DC 10 above it.

17:51.121 --> 18:05.857
[SPEAKER_03]: They can't see where they're on the ground, they're scared by smoke, and I know some of the technology like what Colson is doing with their helicopters, where they have a mapping aircraft map or to put the retarding, and it's very automated.

18:06.378 --> 18:15.728
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that technology to put their craft in emergency mode to say, I need to drop right here right where these skills are run a straight area to adopt them.

18:15.708 --> 18:20.334
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just give the pilot, we know the terrain, we're not going to crash there, the tanker in the ground.

18:20.474 --> 18:26.762
[SPEAKER_03]: Just give the pilot a safe heading and altitude and let the machine take over and drop it.

18:26.782 --> 18:26.882
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

18:26.902 --> 18:29.005
[SPEAKER_03]: And we might for a better outcome.

18:29.045 --> 18:31.248
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why I see technology really intersecting.

18:31.288 --> 18:39.238
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of always my go to back to like gosh, man, that that incident was really really riddled with the community.

18:39.278 --> 18:40.720
[SPEAKER_03]: And

18:41.307 --> 18:46.613
[SPEAKER_03]: And everybody focused a lot of people focused on the human factors, which is important.

18:46.793 --> 18:56.704
[SPEAKER_03]: That is important, but I look at people, when I mentioned that I've got some heated debate with folks on technology and they're like, no, no, you don't understand.

18:56.744 --> 18:58.425
[SPEAKER_03]: They broke, we need to train better.

18:58.445 --> 19:02.730
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, we've been saying this, but what happens when you make mistakes?

19:02.810 --> 19:06.454
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where I'm saying technology might help you.

19:06.805 --> 19:24.561
[SPEAKER_03]: for making that mistake, by cueing you in to some other things that are going on around you, that your current sensors are basically not really understanding and to help you either for making that mistake, or when you do make it might help us help you.

19:24.592 --> 19:51.358
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that's a big, that was one of the big takeaways that we had on a previous episode as well that we're talking about is that just being able to have a system that can capture, you know, the decisions made right in all the data and how it all played out and not sort of stuff so that it can be played back, not as an individual event, but as a macro, like all the different events that are happening across all the United States and Canada and everywhere.

19:51.338 --> 19:59.788
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you can run those through simulated environments and train younger, maybe less experienced people on those real world kind of decision-making events, right?

19:59.828 --> 20:11.682
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is not about signaling anything out, but the failures are really the most important part of this entire learning curve for us to be able to evolve in a sustainable way onto what to do, what not to do.

20:12.023 --> 20:15.827
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you bring up a really valid point of like,

20:15.807 --> 20:38.912
[SPEAKER_02]: you know where their craft goes and and that's really the tactical two-way communication right but it really is the takeaway the after-action report that allows us to like have somebody who's new to the space um never have trained before you know come into an incident commander role let's just say right and be able to actually hear that from other incident commanders who maybe did an after-action report in that moment

20:38.892 --> 20:40.614
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, to be able to feed out with them.

20:41.214 --> 20:45.178
[SPEAKER_02]: Wides important is because people can train all day long when, you know, we say this in the military.

20:45.579 --> 20:48.401
[SPEAKER_02]: When there's no rounds flying too way, you're not on a two-way range.

20:48.421 --> 20:50.103
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one thing to train how to shoot.

20:50.544 --> 20:54.588
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a whole other thing to train when you're in almost the in the block.

20:55.208 --> 21:01.094
[SPEAKER_02]: And the sympathetic nervous system is deciding which fighter flight, you know, way that it's going, right?

21:01.154 --> 21:04.157
[SPEAKER_02]: So just being able to bring in that information in a meaningful way.

21:04.137 --> 21:08.384
[SPEAKER_02]: or other people can kind of experience that decision-making in that time.

21:08.444 --> 21:22.166
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's where the augmentation of technologies, not just tech, but all the different IoT devices, the on-board aircraft technologies, as well as like just the day-to-day open-source information on weather patterns and everything, right?

21:22.186 --> 21:28.677
[SPEAKER_02]: So, all extremely valuable in a full kind of container, if you will.

21:28.657 --> 21:50.378
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you throw the AI's on top of it, they start to make sense of all these new combinations of data and they recognize new trends and they link it back to decision conditions as long as it's yeah as long as it's it's pulling from a single you know like or a part of data that's true and factual not not opinion data like we see in GPT right so all very, very important.

21:52.045 --> 21:57.336
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think I'm, I'm, I'm getting a most fan of technology.

21:58.779 --> 22:00.804
[SPEAKER_03]: People ask me, like, how do I use tack on the firewall?

22:00.844 --> 22:10.965
[SPEAKER_03]: And most time, I'm on the, if I'm on the firewall, I'm not looking, it's in my, I got the phone in my pocket, and most of it is me reporting back to command about.

22:10.945 --> 22:15.452
[SPEAKER_03]: When I make a radio transmission, I would understand my perspective when I make that transmission.

22:15.472 --> 22:18.137
[SPEAKER_03]: So if I say, hey, we got a spotfire, I'm at the spotfire.

22:18.157 --> 22:18.918
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they can understand.

22:18.958 --> 22:30.777
[SPEAKER_03]: If I need to transmit back to something or someone's saying something, and I don't understand where that's occurring, I can pull the phone out and reference that and get kind of cut in.

22:31.280 --> 22:38.253
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a recently did a workshop and we had someone from the Washington office and the Forest Service there to make a really good point.

22:38.294 --> 22:47.331
[SPEAKER_03]: He had a concern about, now are people going to get to focus in on the technology and not have their eyes up in using like, you know,

22:47.513 --> 22:53.039
[SPEAKER_03]: their biologic sensors, you know, their eyes, their brain, their nose, their ears, all these things.

22:53.600 --> 22:59.667
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was a valid point, but I kind of brought up like, that's not the way I use it.

22:59.707 --> 23:13.183
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I am really, and maybe because I fought fire without it, but I'm not a game of

23:13.163 --> 23:17.328
[SPEAKER_03]: And most of the time for me on the fire line, it's in my pocket.

23:17.909 --> 23:28.784
[SPEAKER_03]: I may help me on the way there to kind of get an understanding of where things are occurring, but once I get boots on the ground, especially on a direct attack, that's not useful.

23:28.844 --> 23:36.794
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I interact and really try to keep eyes on the fire and its progress to make sure that we have enough reflex time of the fire moves.

23:37.315 --> 23:38.076
[SPEAKER_03]: So move out of the way.

23:38.116 --> 23:42.782
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's

23:43.252 --> 23:46.898
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, and you're talking about really the tip of the spear here stuff.

23:46.938 --> 24:03.403
[SPEAKER_02]: I think really we're the, you know, we've talked about this before AJ, as to, and I think you've done some, some talks about this as well, is like it's really the entire logistical infrastructure in the back end where it becomes resource management, you know, what's going on, situational awareness wise.

24:03.637 --> 24:20.987
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, which way are we going to push, you know, you know, a couple trucks around this side of the hill or that's it's it's you know, just be able to drive that data from the front lines either to flood it could be a hurricane of volcano, whatever you know it any disaster and be able to drive that data back and forth from the front line to the command center back to the community.

24:20.967 --> 24:39.246
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, and in a very direct role, um, that's really where we see the, the significant value is the, the continuity of a multi user interoperability type capability, you know, for the, the rear echelon who is trying to manage the absolute monster of logistics to get the point into the stick out there.

24:39.918 --> 24:56.662
[SPEAKER_03]: 100% and recently, you know, four service has stood up their attack program, like, called Wolftack, you know, while Fartack and finding to you in the region five, which is California, and so that a big tackies over the years, don't ask to come into Southern Operations Center.

24:56.682 --> 25:08.659
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a fire's moving and they're like, it just brought me into, uh, brought me in for a week to kind of, you know, it's kind of like the dog catches the car and then what, right?

25:09.483 --> 25:10.565
[SPEAKER_03]: How should we use it?

25:10.645 --> 25:18.661
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me bring in an SME to kind of help us understand the best way from a tactical user perspective, and also I've been on incident management teams.

25:19.502 --> 25:31.305
[SPEAKER_03]: And like you said, quickly, you know, one of the most impactful things I'm all far was in that and the logistical side of EMS on the wildfire.

25:31.741 --> 25:32.963
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, protecting our own.

25:33.023 --> 25:48.152
[SPEAKER_03]: So our rents teams and our line in mass teams be positioned in the field to make if someone does have a bad day, have a medical, a tree strike, whatever that the rents teams can be in the right position.

25:48.293 --> 25:50.577
[SPEAKER_03]: And like you said, on the rear side, like,

25:51.265 --> 26:05.985
[SPEAKER_03]: Then the command understanding, you know, running an idea by why of where things are occurring and helping them, hey, did you realize you might want to go over here for a mixture action point and allow someone who's back at a command center to help them make some better decisions.

26:06.807 --> 26:11.012
[SPEAKER_03]: And really watching this all go down is great.

26:11.593 --> 26:16.260
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, be able to watch it, but be able to be able to assist, obviously, even better.

26:16.400 --> 26:17.982
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of insight.

26:18.670 --> 26:19.331
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, cool.

26:19.371 --> 26:23.538
[SPEAKER_03]: You can watch, but wouldn't it be better if you could interact, like you said, despite directional.

26:25.240 --> 26:30.448
[SPEAKER_03]: I dropped an LZ point that I think might be helpful for you on the attack.

26:30.468 --> 26:34.034
[SPEAKER_03]: And for those folks out in the field of managing, you know, I get that looks great.

26:35.416 --> 26:36.337
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a great spot.

26:36.438 --> 26:39.923
[SPEAKER_03]: Or maybe they've already got stuff pre-identified that they come out of.

26:39.943 --> 26:43.589
[SPEAKER_03]: But quickly we realized like this was really useful.

26:43.689 --> 26:47.074
[SPEAKER_03]: And we had a local government

26:48.016 --> 26:53.944
[SPEAKER_03]: runs a module out there that new attack, we've got them in Wavetack, and quickly they pivoted their location.

26:54.525 --> 26:58.251
[SPEAKER_03]: Because all the hotchar crews are carrying dormant interreaches, and they're pushing into the tax server.

26:59.112 --> 27:06.362
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, if you've done line me a mess before, if you're with the crews, then you know where they're at, like you're hiking with the crews.

27:06.730 --> 27:16.144
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't really need a map here at my right here with you, but if you are roadbound and especially REMS modules are roadbound, they have all the equipment and they're moving around.

27:16.665 --> 27:21.412
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got a UTV and they've got rope rescue stuff and they can't be with every crew.

27:21.472 --> 27:35.674
[SPEAKER_03]: They need to be positioned in a spot to make the most best benefit and you're giving an ICS two or four and you're like, all right, this branch, I'm supporting these branches of this division

27:36.025 --> 27:48.643
[SPEAKER_03]: You really don't know where they're at, and where do you see your equipment does matter because if someone gets hurt and if that's the, if I got to take the long way around now versus oh man, I could have moved already.

27:48.723 --> 27:51.267
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't realize they had progressed that far.

27:51.327 --> 27:55.012
[SPEAKER_03]: Now they're looking at a map and going, all right, here's our trigger point.

27:55.032 --> 27:59.719
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got to move either half these resources or the whole module over here to go support those folks.

28:00.280 --> 28:03.805
[SPEAKER_03]: It was awesome to watch that happen in real time on a map.

28:04.426 --> 28:18.879
[SPEAKER_03]: We're before you were just kind of guessing or you might ask them like, hey, tell me when you get to this point over the radio, so I can move my crews, but if the crew forgets they're busy or you're having to ping them constantly in the radio, where are you at now?

28:19.039 --> 28:19.720
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are you at now?

28:20.280 --> 28:21.802
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's usually the first question.

28:21.842 --> 28:27.326
[SPEAKER_03]: Every time you have an eye to be like, the first question is, where are you?

28:27.347 --> 28:32.391
[SPEAKER_03]: I had had attacking my hand for about four days and we had a tree strike on the Mendocino complex.

28:32.692 --> 28:56.370
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're killing an individual and and that's the first question right is where are you and there's some some things there to imagine it you know we're bringing a V live and we got to drop you know large part of it and true strikes are hazard right you're dropping a lot of weight out there and you're over the radio is a division and clearing the line.

28:57.059 --> 28:59.863
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're attacking everybody's word for it.

29:00.384 --> 29:08.836
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, we hope that you would have spread the line, but can you imagine, you've got a talent but now it's a division and you can see every crew.

29:08.876 --> 29:13.343
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not every member, but the crew leaders, all right.

29:14.324 --> 29:16.668
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you're not out far enough.

29:16.788 --> 29:18.090
[SPEAKER_03]: I need you to hike up to the road.

29:18.250 --> 29:20.974
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't see you on the road confirming you're on the road.

29:21.157 --> 29:26.085
[SPEAKER_03]: The little bit of, you know, my mom always said that truth only hurts when it should.

29:26.766 --> 29:27.528
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you telling the truth?

29:27.668 --> 29:29.110
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you really, did you really move?

29:29.130 --> 29:29.731
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.

29:29.892 --> 29:34.499
[SPEAKER_03]: No one wants to hike back up, you know, and then because you think nothing's bad.

29:34.519 --> 29:35.261
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to happen.

29:35.862 --> 29:38.406
[SPEAKER_03]: You think a tree is not going to fall on me.

29:39.230 --> 29:54.302
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm not saying that's what happened on an incident but you can understand that like this does give a little bit of accountability of what's what's occurring, but that's special you work like that I need you guys moved.

29:54.282 --> 29:57.568
[SPEAKER_03]: They can't have a lead pilot can't see you.

29:57.628 --> 30:00.112
[SPEAKER_03]: The air attack can see a little bit, right?

30:00.192 --> 30:04.379
[SPEAKER_03]: But like you look at the ants on the ground, you can easily have someone down there not know.

30:04.900 --> 30:15.338
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have the crew leaders in tech, then you have this visual representation of, you know, of course connectivity being a thing, but we're getting there with that connectivity for sure.

30:15.759 --> 30:19.345
[SPEAKER_03]: Now we can have this connected environment where the air attack,

30:19.831 --> 30:24.040
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the air take your pilot on an orbit could be like, okay, I feel safe now.

30:25.402 --> 30:26.745
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it looks like everybody's.

30:27.387 --> 30:27.707
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

30:27.747 --> 30:36.405
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you have to understand now we have to have this ability that everybody's in the server, but we could get there with connectivity.

30:37.651 --> 30:42.197
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it'd be the biggest scene would be like, I see a dot and they have a move.

30:42.537 --> 30:52.610
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, but there becomes, there becomes other tertiary type, you know, technologies that can help with like identification of hazards and stuff like that, right?

30:52.630 --> 30:55.994
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we, we're building out like what's called a health triangle.

30:56.034 --> 31:00.540
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't move, if you're in the lane position, you know, in a meeting your heart rates are regular.

31:00.720 --> 31:03.844
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then clearly there's some some level of, uh,

31:03.824 --> 31:29.612
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, attention that needs to be paid right and and uh... you know it's going to take to take a village to raise this thing but we need to also have more people on board with the transition of this technology then not right so we don't regret back to what was comfortable which um... you know we throw the baby out with the bathwater with some of these technologies right so just about moving everything forward so so that actually uh... gets me a little bit or a lot to curious AJ

31:29.592 --> 31:41.411
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this notion of it, it takes a whole community to really move this forward and, you know, I'm following what's going on and I'm seeing little steps forward here and there and you just mentioned with tech and you know, Colorado has been doing it.

31:41.431 --> 31:45.798
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have been playing with it, but it hasn't just been massively wholly embraced yet.

31:46.419 --> 31:56.275
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering your thoughts on why that is like what's, what's the main reason we don't have tech based technology on all responder crews

31:56.255 --> 32:00.745
[SPEAKER_00]: because everything I know about it says it's it's it's the game changer, right?

32:02.168 --> 32:10.045
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I could speak for at least the United States, you know, iOS is a big a big thing and the I tack just

32:10.548 --> 32:15.316
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't cut it for whatever reason just was not getting the love and support it needed.

32:15.756 --> 32:22.267
[SPEAKER_03]: Finally is we're going to get there and there's another option now attack aware from flight tactics there's another iOS client.

32:22.848 --> 32:29.519
[SPEAKER_03]: I think once we get the iOS clients a little bit more stable and functionality you'll see more maybe more folks use it.

32:30.761 --> 32:33.545
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we made that decision to like, I'm talking to you on a back.

32:33.725 --> 32:34.767
[SPEAKER_03]: I have an iPhone.

32:34.747 --> 32:38.293
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I'm going down range, I'm using an Android.

32:38.313 --> 32:42.720
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm on the full capability, but at a basic level, the iOS client.

32:43.200 --> 32:48.909
[SPEAKER_03]: Once we get it kind of stable and at least a parity, I'm like a base level, I think you're going to see more worth.

32:49.490 --> 32:51.253
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it's not for sale.

32:51.233 --> 32:53.356
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

32:53.376 --> 33:04.190
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's, you know, tablet commanders are very popular, platformed for talking with your CAD vendor and doing those sort of things, but it's not a tactical mapping application.

33:04.791 --> 33:04.891
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

33:04.911 --> 33:09.136
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think a lot of folks don't even realize some of these capabilities.

33:09.357 --> 33:11.119
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to call this name out on here.

33:11.199 --> 33:14.203
[SPEAKER_03]: But last night, I got, uh,

33:14.285 --> 33:19.073
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a text from a law enforcement professional back east.

33:19.093 --> 33:20.857
[SPEAKER_03]: And they said, hey, we're on this case.

33:20.897 --> 33:22.099
[SPEAKER_03]: We're trying to do this thing.

33:22.119 --> 33:29.712
[SPEAKER_03]: I know I've seen it before, but like, so like our don't pilots could see like an undercover officer,

33:30.147 --> 33:46.317
[SPEAKER_03]: on the ground in augmented reality and then also a GPS tractor on my city vehicle we're trying I was like, yeah, and so I was like, hey, here's one of my videos scroll to minute 18 and I take off at night and you could see

33:46.297 --> 33:47.479
[SPEAKER_03]: augmented reality.

33:48.500 --> 33:56.050
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and the text I got back was what the F, like, are you to me?

33:56.250 --> 33:57.912
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is this is real.

33:57.932 --> 34:00.556
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, yeah, well, this is not made up.

34:00.636 --> 34:01.677
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we can do these things.

34:01.758 --> 34:06.284
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I think some of it is like, it's an awareness thing.

34:06.324 --> 34:07.625
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it's not for sale.

34:08.206 --> 34:15.696
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, it's not pushes a real-time crime center, a real-time information center technology.

34:16.199 --> 34:21.949
[SPEAKER_03]: And we frequently call talk and they end kit too, like just because you talk doesn't mean you have to cancel everything else you had.

34:21.969 --> 34:28.100
[SPEAKER_03]: I always have like, and if you feel later that something else you can get rid of because of talk.

34:28.540 --> 34:30.664
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, but we also which apps all day long.

34:31.505 --> 34:31.686
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

34:31.706 --> 34:41.062
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think there's this, um, kind of misunderstanding that it's from the government and I might not be good, you know, and you do have to stand up.

34:41.122 --> 34:41.683
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't.

34:42.052 --> 34:44.956
[SPEAKER_03]: I think years ago, there wasn't a lot of attack of the service.

34:45.117 --> 34:47.120
[SPEAKER_03]: Now it's like, yeah, you can't stand up top.

34:47.140 --> 34:50.665
[SPEAKER_03]: You can hire someone like yourselves, right?

34:50.685 --> 34:52.768
[SPEAKER_03]: To, hey, we want to stand up our attack environment.

34:52.789 --> 34:54.391
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't want to be on our own.

34:55.272 --> 35:00.921
[SPEAKER_03]: And even within the government, there are government entities that do it by themselves internally.

35:00.901 --> 35:07.989
[SPEAKER_03]: their government entities that actually contract out with other inter, you know, commercial providers to bring their tax in your face.

35:08.570 --> 35:19.602
[SPEAKER_03]: What I really would like to see is Elicineite States is that kind of foundation of interoperability where, you know, the federal government sets that up as like the foundation.

35:19.642 --> 35:23.687
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have your own tax server, awesome, we'll federate.

35:23.747 --> 35:24.328
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I get it.

35:24.348 --> 35:30.655
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people, they want their environment and they don't want the government telling them what they want to do on their tax server.

35:31.107 --> 35:54.330
[SPEAKER_03]: when it comes time to do mutual aid, and maybe you need to get on that federally that federal tax server, because you can another beauty or talk is you can be in multiple servers at the same time, so you can still get all of your data that is in your tax server, but if you just need to see a doctor, someone else, and we get into that federally-and-tax server or that other environment,

35:55.002 --> 35:56.444
[SPEAKER_03]: I get the best of both worlds.

35:56.545 --> 35:58.869
[SPEAKER_03]: I see my data and I see you.

35:58.889 --> 36:01.513
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's still doing some interoperability there.

36:01.794 --> 36:20.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a major factor and to like disaster field and the approach that we're trying to take on this is just to be exactly that is that if there's a infrastructure like a train track, if you will, that right across the country and around the world where anybody, you know what I mean, can become disaster field ready and then they, you know, that federated,

36:20.686 --> 36:36.298
[SPEAKER_02]: servers basically are managed by one you know a group that's not government right that was a big big play that was a big feedback that we got from a lot of people as well is that look we don't have the budget to hire four people to set up our servers and manage them and all the other stuff.

36:36.278 --> 36:48.613
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to turn key solution, but also the interoperability capability that when you come into a multi-user type environment, you know that you're able to see all the the the core system data that's there, right?

36:48.653 --> 36:51.019
[SPEAKER_02]: So that everybody's looking at the same pictures.

36:51.079 --> 36:51.300
[SPEAKER_02]: So

36:51.280 --> 37:11.551
[SPEAKER_02]: It's that infrastructure that's also agnostic is a big play right because we're seeing this right now I mean obviously certain events with governments around the world where you know There's a shutdown maybe or something happens and then we see a complete knocking You know the legs get knocked out from underneath certain certain services, right?

37:11.631 --> 37:16.579
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's never a perfect fit or a perfect solution, but

37:16.559 --> 37:22.548
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, more of a universal infrastructure is definitely been desired by many people we're talking to as well.

37:24.431 --> 37:31.222
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think the, I mean, to go back to like the core question, the why like why I wouldn't see probably because it's not for sale.

37:31.242 --> 37:33.125
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, probably because there's not a sales force.

37:33.165 --> 37:39.875
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no one going out there and saying, by this, it is really kind of user mouth or exposure.

37:40.356 --> 37:44.322
[SPEAKER_03]: Much more on the law enforcement side as well.

37:44.977 --> 37:55.733
[SPEAKER_03]: Another quick funny story, I'll open a local agency out of here and they said, hey, we're going to finally do talk and it was just kind of like, well, we'll tell us along, right?

37:55.853 --> 38:08.352
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you've been, you know, a call's worth or slaughter, I hope, you know, he's in there and this guy's been in there for bed and he said, well, funny thing is, um, and he's had a serve route for bed and done some stuff and,

38:09.293 --> 38:19.793
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, we're starting to get folks out of the military joining the law enforcement community now that have been using this and going like, why aren't we doing this?

38:20.514 --> 38:28.028
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're starting to see the, you know, soft folks that are coming out and joining the law enforcement and going.

38:28.008 --> 38:29.112
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is how we do it.

38:29.413 --> 38:31.238
[SPEAKER_03]: Now we have this thing called tack to the military.

38:31.258 --> 38:33.746
[SPEAKER_03]: We, you know, you can use this.

38:33.987 --> 38:37.920
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he had said that they got some like that on their SWAT team.

38:37.940 --> 38:40.127
[SPEAKER_03]: And now their SWAT commander is like,

38:40.394 --> 38:44.359
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's do this, and he's like, I've been talking about that for four or five years now.

38:44.379 --> 38:45.881
[SPEAKER_03]: My skin, I'm going to do it.

38:46.561 --> 39:10.030
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm going to let you guys come out and now it's now it's vetted, you know, even our organization that Coronavirus, there was a lot of like who else is using it and almost took like like third party validation, I said, oh, nobody, I said, we are in the spirit, but tell me, let me teach you these capabilities in here and how to do it and you tell me if it's worth it.

39:10.432 --> 39:24.137
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and the resounding, you know, it is, is yes, yes, does it take time and training just like everything else we do 100% It doesn't, I'm care what job you have to get good at it.

39:24.607 --> 39:43.133
[SPEAKER_03]: Does take training and we all can probably agree to that like most of the impactful stuff we do is kind of the core basics, but sure there's a lot of wisdom things you could do, but if you know how to do the core basics, you're probably going to have a better outcome and for us that's you know, don't have to connect to a server.

39:45.215 --> 39:52.926
[SPEAKER_03]: Making sure you're connected or connected to another client dropping a pin on the map and sharing that to your friends.

39:53.800 --> 40:05.596
[SPEAKER_03]: That right there at the core of talk is powerful 100% and from there it just keeps getting better and better and better and better.

40:05.757 --> 40:12.886
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's even that right there, to be a fire captain organization, you're gonna get thrown in a tack problem.

40:12.906 --> 40:14.028
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's really what it is.

40:14.969 --> 40:20.517
[SPEAKER_03]: It is, hey, so phone color is injured up in the Cleveland House forest or the coordinates.

40:21.104 --> 40:22.766
[SPEAKER_03]: jamming in there, share to your buddies.

40:23.727 --> 40:23.847
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

40:23.887 --> 40:24.167
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

40:24.187 --> 40:31.275
[SPEAKER_03]: Just as I said, is our top or down in a valley, like just some basic, bring up this layer.

40:31.995 --> 40:36.980
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not asking to go launch a drone and georective video.

40:37.000 --> 40:37.721
[SPEAKER_02]: No, of course.

40:37.961 --> 40:38.182
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

40:39.123 --> 40:41.986
[SPEAKER_03]: That's definitely our specialist stuff.

40:42.006 --> 40:49.153
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I think once people do it and kind of, I think there's a lot of mystery around it.

40:49.707 --> 40:52.792
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this looks hard, and I'm like, we joined hard.

40:53.212 --> 40:54.434
[SPEAKER_03]: We joined the hard job.

40:55.275 --> 40:59.742
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I don't know, anybody got the fire service along for us and to join the military for easy.

41:00.443 --> 41:11.259
[SPEAKER_03]: We got in the job for hard, and that does take, discipline and repetition of the first time you do anything in any of those jobs you suck at it.

41:11.640 --> 41:19.191
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't care if each group was at, as a marksman, you know, you were a hunter.

41:19.542 --> 41:39.981
[SPEAKER_03]: course battle, you know, you know, that's just what you didn't do as a kid, you know, that's it's not most people weren't raised doing that sort of stuff that you joined the months where you had quite a shoot, but I didn't learn to shoot like this and how do you get you to shoot like that and all you do it over and over and over and over and tackle this in way.

41:40.315 --> 41:44.607
[SPEAKER_03]: So anytime I hear pushback about like it's hard and I said, well, how was Paramedic school?

41:44.768 --> 41:46.352
[SPEAKER_03]: Or how was the first time you do this?

41:47.155 --> 41:47.957
[SPEAKER_03]: You saw that it.

41:48.579 --> 41:50.183
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you going to be brave enough to suck it?

41:50.404 --> 41:51.507
[SPEAKER_03]: Something new.

41:51.875 --> 41:52.596
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's just it.

41:52.616 --> 41:57.221
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think just also bringing in this technology is being like a standard like it's it's not going anywhere.

41:57.261 --> 41:59.544
[SPEAKER_02]: Like like a lot of these different technologies.

42:00.024 --> 42:01.286
[SPEAKER_02]: They are not going anywhere.

42:01.306 --> 42:03.909
[SPEAKER_02]: So even though old school saying that, ah, that's not the way we do things.

42:03.929 --> 42:05.470
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it is now like it.

42:05.951 --> 42:08.113
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a way that things are going to be starting to be done.

42:08.153 --> 42:11.277
[SPEAKER_02]: You got newer generation of kids coming into the workforce.

42:11.717 --> 42:18.405
[SPEAKER_02]: They need some sort of level of, you know, I know you say you don't it's not gamification, but it really is an engagement of information and data.

42:18.385 --> 42:23.451
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's very familiar to them, how do their own Call of Duty or are their old gaming background that they come from?

42:23.471 --> 42:25.093
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what their familiar was.

42:25.153 --> 42:31.720
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're going to see an adoption of this technology and a much quicker pace when you're not trying to train old dogs new tricks.

42:31.740 --> 42:33.963
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're just burning up the old guys coming up.

42:34.584 --> 42:36.606
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, and I don't be the thing.

42:37.647 --> 42:37.947
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

42:37.967 --> 42:38.648
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but it's funny.

42:38.668 --> 42:48.139
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, and, and I've seen that before, some of the old dogs

42:48.760 --> 42:54.307
[SPEAKER_03]: Or when we did an event coming up and I say, hey, we're going to use tack for the straightening environment.

42:54.467 --> 42:57.491
[SPEAKER_03]: These guys not got out of the park said, hey, you did great.

42:57.511 --> 42:59.253
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, yeah, I did a bunch of training on it.

42:59.734 --> 43:12.169
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like imagine that you did some training on it and you figured it out, but what are the odds that training equal to a better outcome or proficiency.

43:13.178 --> 43:27.316
[SPEAKER_03]: It's different though, you know, I found this recent call from Jim, oh, I think it's last name, but it's like, if you're not really, if you're not willing to risk the unusual you'll be, you'll be stuck with the ordinary and it really like hit me.

43:27.376 --> 43:34.004
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, yeah, if if you're comfortable just doing the regular stuff, all right, then you're going to just get regular stuff.

43:34.124 --> 43:39.591
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're willing to do some unusual things, you can get some awesome, um,

43:39.959 --> 43:54.981
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we've moved into our pilots now flying in TAC and we put drones in every fire engine now and really TAC was a part of that it made the drone pilots now have a much better understanding of interacting with crews on the ground.

43:54.961 --> 44:02.090
[SPEAKER_03]: that is definitely game-efficient for the UIS side, that augmented reality, fly to this point, understand.

44:02.631 --> 44:06.976
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if you're not doing that, and you're just flying to drone around, and you don't have a good understanding of where things are.

44:07.016 --> 44:09.659
[SPEAKER_02]: I know hazard, and your hazard to everybody else out there, really.

44:10.180 --> 44:10.600
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

44:10.621 --> 44:14.125
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I say, hey, I need you to go over here, and you're like, where's that?

44:14.686 --> 44:16.648
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not there in a talk in the light.

44:16.628 --> 44:17.229
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

44:18.350 --> 44:23.718
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's been a huge, I think the UIS side is you.

44:23.798 --> 44:25.580
[SPEAKER_03]: And right, it's not, I would see not for sale.

44:26.061 --> 44:26.642
[SPEAKER_03]: It's for free.

44:27.102 --> 44:33.291
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, you set up a video server and you, yes, it's going to take some a little bit of work.

44:33.371 --> 44:43.885
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a full playlist on my YouTube channel to put the

44:43.865 --> 44:50.376
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's, it's, but it's so impactful in the U.S. side or even just any GEDO special video.

44:50.396 --> 44:53.048
[SPEAKER_03]: If you've got sensor data off it, something flying.

44:53.787 --> 45:03.045
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, putting it in talk is really it's just watching a video versus fully immersive experience.

45:03.306 --> 45:04.849
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the other thing too.

45:05.229 --> 45:15.289
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you're going to get in your tab A right or like, you know, new to anybody myself and you know, I go get a device or you go get a, you know, go get a tablet and you just simply.

45:15.269 --> 45:16.451
[SPEAKER_02]: bring on siftack, right?

45:16.471 --> 45:18.535
[SPEAKER_02]: They just just try it out, try it out at your home.

45:18.976 --> 45:22.222
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, go, we've got a DJI just try it out.

45:22.302 --> 45:31.620
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, that takes, nobody has to be around, but it'll really kind of put the boogeyman away that you think is this, you know, and you can suck your private.

45:31.640 --> 45:33.724
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like, I don't know.

45:34.786 --> 45:38.172
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the tri-part, and I don't know what it is.

45:38.607 --> 45:40.270
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's that curve, right?

45:40.350 --> 45:48.264
[SPEAKER_03]: And my archief is, you know, Brian, you know, I worked for an awesome fire chief, who just, I would say let's us run with scissors.

45:48.485 --> 45:49.647
[SPEAKER_03]: Our IT department, too.

45:49.827 --> 45:53.133
[SPEAKER_03]: They just let us go out and just show up and do stuff.

45:53.153 --> 45:58.523
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, a lot of times you hear, like, your IT department is where dreams go to die.

45:58.503 --> 46:00.886
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, we're not or just the opposite of that.

46:00.906 --> 46:07.074
[SPEAKER_03]: They let us just do so much and have a lot of faith that we're not going to screw it up and it's awesome.

46:07.634 --> 46:20.410
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, there's that curve of like the kind of like early adopter, late adopter, and he is told, you know, our leaders are just like, if you want to be a leader here, I need

46:21.166 --> 46:27.997
[SPEAKER_03]: I demand you to be of that early adopter curve that like the flanot resisting you things.

46:28.298 --> 46:30.762
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're going to you can ask questions.

46:30.782 --> 46:31.323
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.

46:31.864 --> 46:36.752
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we should all ask the what why are we doing this like what's what phrogram with the way we used to do things.

46:37.393 --> 46:38.975
[SPEAKER_03]: What where does this make things better.

46:39.396 --> 46:42.762
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and no program on inception is perfect.

46:43.002 --> 46:43.663
[SPEAKER_03]: We have.

46:44.977 --> 46:51.463
[SPEAKER_03]: We have tried stuff for our department, that we were at the bleeding edge and had to put that technology on the shelf.

46:51.983 --> 46:55.847
[SPEAKER_03]: It took us another eight years before technology caught up to what we wanted to do.

46:56.167 --> 47:00.110
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay, you know, but you have to try.

47:00.150 --> 47:03.373
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're not willing to try, then nothing's ever gonna work.

47:04.815 --> 47:13.262
[SPEAKER_03]: But I see folks all the time that I exposed to tech and that there's not even a willingness to try

47:13.748 --> 47:16.913
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm just not that I'm like, I'm gonna try it.

47:17.334 --> 47:41.832
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know what it's like, but that workshop on a couple of weeks ago here is, I would rather you come to this free workshop, and let for two days I'll give you, you know, package donuts in the morning and some Starbucks coffee and try to get you here, you know, firefighters and cops love food and it's not going to be, you know, gourmet pastries or anything,

47:42.959 --> 47:46.244
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me show you what this is capable of and allow you to make a decision.

47:46.264 --> 47:46.684
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

47:46.704 --> 47:50.049
[SPEAKER_03]: And touch and feel, go from there.

47:50.570 --> 47:52.853
[SPEAKER_03]: If it isn't meet your needs, fine.

47:52.953 --> 47:54.315
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'd rather you be informed.

47:55.277 --> 48:02.908
[SPEAKER_03]: And then being somewhat of an instructor basic, about, you know, room or I can, you know, we give everybody a phone.

48:03.729 --> 48:05.992
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody gets the touch and we do the basic things.

48:06.373 --> 48:10.198
[SPEAKER_03]: And then go out and figure out, figure it out from there.

48:10.921 --> 48:12.383
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not that this stuff existed.

48:12.443 --> 48:17.972
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Ralph Kohler had his syntax stuff.

48:17.992 --> 48:20.776
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't discover the YouTube channel until like a year later.

48:20.796 --> 48:24.942
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, well, I didn't someone tell me this was here, but it didn't helpful.

48:25.283 --> 48:29.910
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was the manual, but like nothing on like how to deploy a tax server.

48:30.230 --> 48:31.512
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that stuff just didn't.

48:31.692 --> 48:33.996
[SPEAKER_02]: Or how to set up your DJI drone.

48:34.156 --> 48:38.042
[SPEAKER_02]: The tax indicate is a wealth and all you have to remember that.

48:38.326 --> 48:41.715
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were going directly with our government back then on how to do it.

48:41.855 --> 48:43.600
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're still now the part of this.

48:43.620 --> 48:45.425
[SPEAKER_03]: We're still super close to that team.

48:45.685 --> 48:46.568
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

48:47.149 --> 48:50.257
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we're always trying new features out for them.

48:50.598 --> 48:53.686
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, obviously it's all dependent on what drone you have.

48:54.328 --> 48:55.170
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.

48:56.753 --> 49:12.698
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the, I think that was one of the biggest takeaways that we had when we decided to embed talk is obviously our core data sharing platform right within disaster field was just the ability to be able to, you know, very much like an Android.

49:12.918 --> 49:15.943
[SPEAKER_02]: It did's very, you know,

49:15.923 --> 49:38.961
[SPEAKER_02]: compatible with so many different things right out there that you know and then outside of that even if you drone isn't you know doesn't necessarily have an app for it there's still a way to actually you know be able to engage with the tax server you know even if there's something not custom build for it so just a versatility in the back end in the in the technology itself I think just makes it an old brainer you know when utilizing

49:39.380 --> 49:40.781
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, a data sharing platform.

49:40.942 --> 49:42.583
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, get the information across.

49:42.984 --> 49:46.487
[SPEAKER_02]: At least if it 80 to 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

49:46.527 --> 49:50.631
[SPEAKER_02]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

49:50.651 --> 49:52.693
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

49:52.773 --> 49:55.095
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

49:55.115 --> 49:58.199
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

49:58.219 --> 50:00.381
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

50:00.841 --> 50:02.403
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

50:02.423 --> 50:04.164
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

50:04.184 --> 50:05.746
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

50:05.766 --> 50:07.568
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90% of the people out there can see what the heck is going on.

50:07.588 --> 50:07.868
[SPEAKER_03]: That's 80, 90%

50:08.320 --> 50:10.042
[SPEAKER_03]: What is the ground control stations?

50:10.222 --> 50:11.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's running on Windows 11.

50:12.084 --> 50:14.006
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, okay.

50:15.007 --> 50:24.396
[SPEAKER_03]: You think you can make one for Android or open it up for a third party Android Linux or Android control station to talk to your drone.

50:24.456 --> 50:29.261
[SPEAKER_03]: If you would open up that, you only have to make your own custom GCS.

50:29.421 --> 50:32.925
[SPEAKER_03]: There's plenty of people that make Android-based controllers.

50:33.926 --> 50:38.310
[SPEAKER_03]: And if they could just put your radio on there

50:39.286 --> 50:44.360
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's starting to see a lot more people and it's funny there's I'll leave the company out.

50:44.400 --> 50:45.001
[SPEAKER_03]: They're being great.

50:45.423 --> 50:48.611
[SPEAKER_03]: But at first it was like, they didn't really want to see like the market.

50:48.691 --> 50:51.940
[SPEAKER_03]: And now they're like, oh yeah, more and more people are asking for this.

50:52.602 --> 50:54.848
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of it is because the DJI threat.

50:55.520 --> 50:57.182
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the band through you.

50:57.483 --> 51:02.469
[SPEAKER_03]: And so more and more I'm like, hey, you offered a capitalized here to meet a market need.

51:02.990 --> 51:08.197
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's going away, you know, I just don't see the way things are going on.

51:08.217 --> 51:18.931
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't see, well, especially 100% tariffs, don't see Chinese drones really being either, even if they couldn't get here affordable anymore.

51:19.372 --> 51:20.413
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

51:20.647 --> 51:43.503
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, anybody out there, let's see that's building a drone, open source and make it, make it, once they open, you know, you can have, you know, your UAS and your sensors and all that stuff, but if you could have, you know, a protocol that's open source, and allow us to use an Android GCS, you're probably still a lot of drones.

51:43.843 --> 51:45.085
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 100%.

51:45.250 --> 51:59.752
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you just have to carry on so you mentioned a few moments ago that iOS is coming, do you have some sense of when that might be for the top product center, but there's some movement going forward.

51:59.792 --> 52:07.904
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I talk and talk a lot early work, but it sounds like they're just to get out of the shutdown.

52:07.924 --> 52:11.089
[SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds like a near future kind of a thing anyway.

52:11.305 --> 52:16.814
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, some more official support coming out of the Tech Botics Center and on the iOS side.

52:16.914 --> 52:18.577
[SPEAKER_03]: So pretty exciting for that.

52:18.918 --> 52:20.981
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I don't want to speak specific for date friends.

52:22.584 --> 52:29.415
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, there's going to be something coming out down the road.

52:30.357 --> 52:39.049
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that's exciting, because everything that's been iOS has been kind of kind of free into projects, different agencies doing it.

52:39.690 --> 52:42.895
[SPEAKER_03]: And now it's going to be kind of a core supported platform.

52:42.915 --> 52:44.397
[SPEAKER_03]: So pretty excited about that.

52:44.597 --> 52:45.599
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that'll be huge.

52:46.520 --> 52:51.247
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm only going to do everything ATAC does.

52:52.228 --> 52:53.009
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's OK.

52:53.290 --> 52:57.175
[SPEAKER_03]: Your power users are going to go to Gravity towards Android.

52:57.509 --> 52:59.051
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I knew it.

52:59.472 --> 53:07.044
[SPEAKER_02]: Even a tackling capability or something that just, you know, has some of the just the the common kind of situational awareness capabilities.

53:07.224 --> 53:12.473
[SPEAKER_02]: If if all, if all that it did, that would still be a massive win just for the general.

53:12.633 --> 53:17.100
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, the general public just to be able to see what the heck's going on, you know, on any given events.

53:17.140 --> 53:17.661
[SPEAKER_02]: So.

53:17.641 --> 53:18.662
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to get strong.

53:18.883 --> 53:29.417
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to get better, you know, as we move forward and I think more engagement they have, especially from interoperability, focus, there will be more capital and more attention paid to it, right?

53:29.517 --> 53:36.286
[SPEAKER_00]: So those of us that have headphones and iPads and MacBook Pro's and studios.

53:37.027 --> 53:40.071
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank whoever's going to build this iOS stuff out first.

53:40.051 --> 53:49.854
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, it's somewhat, I think the hard thing we have with eye attack is some stability stuff, and then the community saying, why isn't it doing this?

53:49.874 --> 53:54.826
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's not really fun in the way eye attack is, you know, a separate organization that's funding it.

53:54.886 --> 53:55.748
[SPEAKER_03]: So,

53:55.728 --> 54:01.756
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, an A tax and just the way IOS is, you know, it doesn't do plug-ins and per se.

54:02.097 --> 54:05.982
[SPEAKER_03]: You can do an integration, but it's got to be all in the app.

54:06.002 --> 54:06.102
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

54:06.122 --> 54:14.854
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't do a third party plug-in and just build something and then have it work like you can with Android.

54:14.934 --> 54:17.357
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, I think the choices are out there.

54:17.397 --> 54:25.448
[SPEAKER_03]: I think if you can get stability in the platform, that's not anything we saw.

54:25.495 --> 54:29.163
[SPEAKER_03]: want to it comes down some core capabilities not working.

54:29.764 --> 54:39.927
[SPEAKER_03]: I think if we get down a core capabilities, the ability there, I think it's for a basic user probably needs, you know, 90%.

54:40.312 --> 54:41.875
[SPEAKER_03]: what what they need.

54:42.115 --> 54:55.958
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, when it comes down to the fact that like when a lot of people realize that on Amazon, you can buy a Samsung device refurbished for 180 bucks, you know, and and same thing with your your tablets, your S9s and that sort of stuff like just to have that that that.

54:55.938 --> 55:06.235
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, features and functions of the full tax suite, you know, is really, it's, it's not as high cost as a $1,700 iPhone either, you know what I mean?

55:06.495 --> 55:07.818
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it has folks.

55:08.018 --> 55:13.647
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you could hotspot, hotspot, I've got that cost cutting video of mine.

55:13.727 --> 55:15.931
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we're doing it now, so it's just hotspot.

55:15.951 --> 55:21.540
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I've got a cost cutting ways to get into the tech YouTube video and

55:21.605 --> 55:24.951
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a time when I'm getting her furnished and I'm hotspot off here.

55:24.971 --> 55:33.427
[SPEAKER_03]: I phone if you want to and again, you can kind of compare and then maybe one day the iOS features get to the point where like, all right, I don't need another device.

55:34.068 --> 55:36.092
[SPEAKER_03]: Only certain people need this device.

55:36.974 --> 55:37.294
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

55:37.315 --> 55:37.836
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

55:37.856 --> 55:41.743
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but I do think if you're flying UAS is you have to learn that you're good.

55:41.763 --> 55:43.967
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, there's no UAS.

55:43.947 --> 55:46.769
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no UAS manufacturer that's building on iOS.

55:47.130 --> 55:54.916
[SPEAKER_03]: No, you know, back in the day, yes, if you're using a dumb controller, you could use the GGI app, or even you still can on iOS.

55:54.936 --> 55:58.439
[SPEAKER_03]: But as far as an integrated controller, they're building them on Android.

55:58.559 --> 55:59.080
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, there was.

55:59.100 --> 56:01.802
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where UAS tool comes in.

56:01.822 --> 56:13.532
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't see that changing, but that's kind of in each case, you know, but that's where it's like, hey, if you're flying UAS is going to use UAS tool, you need to learn eight times.

56:14.660 --> 56:38.794
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's been a good, it's been a heck of a learning curve from a self-drink through a fire hose, but, you know, thanks to you, AJ, and bringing a lot of the information for it, even on LinkedIn, anybody who's listening, you know, go and then take a look at what AJ's posting, it's a lot of good stuff, and the tax indicator on YouTube is a heck of a, you know, a library of great videos, you know, just to even get you started.

56:38.774 --> 56:40.477
[SPEAKER_02]: on a very simplistic level.

56:40.617 --> 56:57.266
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I really appreciate taking the time here to to come in and chat with us about this today, and I look forward to kind of future conversations where, you know, this stuff has started to take off in a massive way, and we see mass adoption, you know, coast to coast, you know, in a much deeper level.

56:57.367 --> 57:00.512
[SPEAKER_02]: So, again, it's been a better pleasure.

57:01.741 --> 57:18.180
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, man, it's been an awesome friendship with you cold over the years and kind of rocking about what this could look like it's rad to see your, you know, your dreams three years ago of what you wanted to turn turn into something which is awesome, it's a.

57:18.970 --> 57:33.184
[SPEAKER_03]: They're easy to quit and I know you've overcame a lot of hurdles and this and then it's tough, this space is tough, but I think it's worth it to keep pushing.

57:33.404 --> 57:34.405
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it is the future.

57:34.545 --> 57:36.187
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everything I see tells me that.

57:37.268 --> 57:43.454
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and it's fine, too, like we mentioned earlier about this kind of tech adoption.

57:43.474 --> 57:47.037
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, 20 years ago, we told our folks,

57:47.742 --> 57:51.668
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not enough to know like this is a radio and turn it on.

57:51.868 --> 57:53.631
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to really understand some of the features.

57:53.711 --> 57:54.813
[SPEAKER_03]: How does the scan work?

57:54.833 --> 57:55.855
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you switch tones?

57:55.895 --> 57:56.936
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you switch zones?

57:57.537 --> 58:00.041
[SPEAKER_03]: Really having a basic understanding of the radio.

58:00.923 --> 58:01.123
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

58:01.303 --> 58:03.727
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like tack is the new radio.

58:03.867 --> 58:05.750
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the new communication medium.

58:06.091 --> 58:06.391
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree.

58:06.611 --> 58:10.898
[SPEAKER_03]: And it does take a little bit of understanding of what's going on behind that.

58:10.878 --> 58:17.995
[SPEAKER_03]: around the hood, it doesn't, you don't need to be a, you know, an IT expert, but having some on basic understandings.

58:19.057 --> 58:26.254
[SPEAKER_03]: If I try to explain to you, your android is just like your computer, so understanding how to get to files.

58:27.162 --> 58:29.405
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, I can't get to the internet.

58:29.766 --> 58:30.567
[SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean?

58:31.048 --> 58:32.550
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all the same stuff.

58:32.570 --> 58:36.155
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are familiar with their computer, but they don't think of their phone.

58:36.536 --> 58:37.858
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of the same way.

58:38.599 --> 58:39.841
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the same thing.

58:40.622 --> 58:46.310
[SPEAKER_02]: And I pay tribute to, as well, like, you've been along this line, I think it's a few years back.

58:46.510 --> 58:51.077
[SPEAKER_02]: When we first started about this, and I brought the concept of what I was thinking about doing.

58:51.057 --> 59:13.470
[SPEAKER_02]: and to where we are here today that's been exactly it is is a lot of this has been self taught to myself you know and trying to try to ingest information off the off a YouTube and everywhere else and just you know kind of become enough to be dangerous really at the end of the day it's it's so there's a there everybody else has as the in-depth knowledge of how the internals of a computer works but I have to be able to know

59:13.450 --> 59:18.061
[SPEAKER_02]: and be able to have to talk shop on exactly how the features and functions work.

59:18.121 --> 59:29.147
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's my goal is to remain dangerous, you know, with the information that we ingest and let the 100 pound brains, you know, do the rest behind the scenes, right?

59:29.465 --> 59:30.607
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the same way.

59:30.908 --> 59:34.354
[SPEAKER_03]: People ask me, like, how do I get this in my tax or a world, ever?

59:34.434 --> 59:37.320
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, hey, I am a classic end user.

59:37.881 --> 59:44.453
[SPEAKER_03]: I think on the business side, you would say that I'm a good sales engineer, you know, I know enough about.

59:45.125 --> 59:49.231
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the technology to speak to a little bit to the customers.

59:49.892 --> 59:53.437
[SPEAKER_03]: I won't, but I can take up the customer wants back to the engineers.

59:53.818 --> 59:57.703
[SPEAKER_03]: I think if you move watch the movie office face, there's a pretty good scene in there.

59:57.783 --> 59:59.145
[SPEAKER_03]: We all walk that position.

59:59.626 --> 59:59.726
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

59:59.746 --> 01:00:00.387
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's true.

01:00:01.368 --> 01:00:08.719
[SPEAKER_03]: You kind of have to have an understanding of in the field tactical stuff and technology to be able to to sell it to people.

01:00:08.699 --> 01:00:10.222
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and have that understanding.

01:00:10.943 --> 01:00:12.946
[SPEAKER_03]: I am not the integrator.

01:00:13.327 --> 01:00:16.773
[SPEAKER_03]: I go to the 100 pound brains on the ideas guy.

01:00:17.915 --> 01:00:20.279
[SPEAKER_03]: Say, well, what if we did this or could we do that?

01:00:21.321 --> 01:00:23.485
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're on your off to look at this.

01:00:23.701 --> 01:00:33.371
[SPEAKER_02]: You're after looked at with like them looking at you like are you crazy like what are you talking about it's like I'm trying to be like, well, how did you do this and I said I didn't do that.

01:00:33.551 --> 01:00:35.553
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to that guy and he did it.

01:00:35.573 --> 01:00:35.694
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

01:00:36.174 --> 01:00:41.940
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what I wanted to get done and there's a folks up the command line like said, I'm a little dangerous in the command line.

01:00:43.882 --> 01:00:50.569
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I I know what looks right in the field.

01:00:50.954 --> 01:00:57.629
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know, you know, really, you know, where the pain points are and where the attack can come in and fill some gaps.

01:00:57.750 --> 01:00:58.912
[SPEAKER_03]: I also know it's limitations.

01:00:59.293 --> 01:01:09.537
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a silver bullet, as you know, you know, and I if you've ever seen any of my presentations I end with a picture of a silver bullet, you know, my attack is not a silver bullet.

01:01:09.517 --> 01:01:18.629
[SPEAKER_03]: It meets a specific requirement, and it can do a lot of things, but bio-means, switch-ups, if there's something else, it can run at the same time as your other app.

01:01:18.649 --> 01:01:22.655
[SPEAKER_03]: Both apps can both also be sharing your positional data at the same time.

01:01:23.256 --> 01:01:26.961
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, your phone isn't at just one app at a time device.

01:01:27.301 --> 01:01:27.722
[SPEAKER_03]: Boom.

01:01:27.742 --> 01:01:30.225
[SPEAKER_03]: So, we're really, we're really right.

01:01:30.205 --> 01:01:48.067
[SPEAKER_02]: What really excites me about what we're all this is going is you'll you'll start to notice over the next and in the viewers will as well over the next six months, 12 months, it's going to be start very apparent that we're actually bringing and we're bringing a disaster field to the fingertips of like people who would never ever get access to this type of technology.

01:01:48.348 --> 01:01:55.757
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking indigenous communities, oil and gas companies, mines like all these other groups that have their own emergency management system to maintain.

01:01:55.737 --> 01:02:01.945
[SPEAKER_02]: They all out there on risk their own everything that they have to mark out borders, geofences, boundaries, all the other things.

01:02:02.827 --> 01:02:10.197
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, that's really a big approach is like how do you merge, you know, both of those worlds together so that the tip of the spear knows what the heck's going on.

01:02:10.357 --> 01:02:14.202
[SPEAKER_02]: When it's just an industry partner like an online gas company or one of those other ones.

01:02:14.182 --> 01:02:21.971
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you guys had a big explosion down there, you know, recently in the the Chevron facility right and, you know, you have all these different groups around.

01:02:22.011 --> 01:02:27.397
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is about getting it out to the fingertips of everybody from the ground up in the background, right?

01:02:27.517 --> 01:02:41.893
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's um,

01:02:42.346 --> 01:02:46.230
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, conditions like said, well, yes, off shore stuff.

01:02:46.290 --> 01:02:50.974
[SPEAKER_03]: I really see a lot of opportunity in the maritime environment for tech.

01:02:51.135 --> 01:02:57.641
[SPEAKER_03]: That is definitely a situation when you cannot say I'm on the corner of six and some history.

01:02:58.081 --> 01:03:00.063
[SPEAKER_03]: You're in the ocean or I'm on this trail.

01:03:00.964 --> 01:03:07.611
[SPEAKER_03]: It's usually I am from this point, ranging bearing this many miles out, you know.

01:03:08.071 --> 01:03:09.973
[SPEAKER_03]: Then someone else has to, you know,

01:03:10.223 --> 01:03:12.365
[SPEAKER_03]: figure that out, or everywhere doesn't talk.

01:03:12.385 --> 01:03:13.927
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know they have AIS and stuff.

01:03:13.947 --> 01:03:15.549
[SPEAKER_03]: But we can mean AIS and talk.

01:03:16.130 --> 01:03:18.652
[SPEAKER_03]: But what's great about talk is that I can start collaborating.

01:03:18.673 --> 01:03:19.754
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, this is where I'm going.

01:03:19.774 --> 01:03:24.079
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where the reversal or thing is reported that maybe it's a plane crash.

01:03:24.739 --> 01:03:36.012
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, it's just really to me the barricine thing, but it totally challenging environment to try to explain to folks where people are at.

01:03:36.532 --> 01:03:54.405
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's so many cases we probably go on for six, seven hours on the one where this could be done, but yeah, I know it's it's I know for myself and probably speaking for new to a little bit here too is that like just having somebody who has the purpose, you know, you got purpose behind this right we we talk about this all the time.

01:03:54.385 --> 01:04:19.376
[SPEAKER_02]: When you put purpose behind something like this, you know, it's funny how little money we can do all this stuff for, you know, like it's it's just there's there's there's a there's an outcome here that we all kind of see but don't see but you know, you know, there's purpose behind it right and that's important, you know, as other people get involved in this type of stuff and and start driving some of the youth into, you know, driving some of that purpose out, right?

01:04:19.656 --> 01:04:22.239
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I'm used to this emergency manager space.

01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:22.840
[SPEAKER_02]: So

01:04:23.950 --> 01:04:24.431
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:04:24.731 --> 01:04:25.072
[SPEAKER_02]: Right on.

01:04:25.192 --> 01:04:38.472
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for your time today and we look forward to, again, having you on in the future here and I think there's a few other items here that we could dive into a little deeper and, but overall, thank you for all your contributions and everything you're doing out there.

01:04:39.213 --> 01:04:41.717
[SPEAKER_00]: And from my perspective, personally, thanks for the insights.

01:04:42.037 --> 01:04:47.806
[SPEAKER_00]: My brain's spinning right now, so it'll be a tough drive hole, I'm going to have to turn and keep up with you.

01:04:47.826 --> 01:04:48.266
[SPEAKER_00]: This was a bit.

01:04:49.088 --> 01:04:52.793
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for that and thanks for being the evangelist, man.

01:04:52.773 --> 01:05:00.165
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a, there's a quote that came up earlier today when we were doing another interview of somebody else that I heard on a radio and it's real simple.

01:05:00.205 --> 01:05:02.769
[SPEAKER_00]: It just says, dare and the world will follow.

01:05:03.710 --> 01:05:12.805
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what I see here with you is you are daring to be at the very pointiest end of the pointiest spear here on this stuff, right?

01:05:12.885 --> 01:05:15.109
[SPEAKER_00]: You're out before the bleeding edge even it seems.

01:05:15.629 --> 01:05:16.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:16.010 --> 01:05:22.196
[SPEAKER_03]: We just had a recent, we had a recent course at our attack.

01:05:22.216 --> 01:05:23.978
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been in the classroom in about four years.

01:05:24.078 --> 01:05:27.101
[SPEAKER_03]: So the guy went back and we started, you know, it's scary and it's honored again.

01:05:27.201 --> 01:05:31.025
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've done a lot of remote stuff through email to our folks.

01:05:31.085 --> 01:05:31.906
[SPEAKER_03]: I do really a job.

01:05:31.926 --> 01:05:39.054
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also like told them all the other things and the different things we do in our organization that are different than other people do.

01:05:39.734 --> 01:05:40.575
[SPEAKER_03]: And we developed these.

01:05:40.675 --> 01:05:42.057
[SPEAKER_03]: We decided or we did it before.

01:05:42.117 --> 01:05:45.240
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just, you know,

01:05:45.659 --> 01:06:00.482
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we're organizations to look at other things they've done that they've been progressive on this is just one other one other thing exactly and sometimes you know you want to be it's okay to be the first and fail you got to learn something right up.

01:06:00.502 --> 01:06:01.864
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely absolutely.

01:06:01.884 --> 01:06:04.969
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to take this notion of the digital safety officer.

01:06:05.009 --> 01:06:14.063
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you've just given me my asking thin article there is the next add on to you.

01:06:15.089 --> 01:06:17.732
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's retired, qualifier.

01:06:17.752 --> 01:06:18.973
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's retired in Washington.

01:06:19.033 --> 01:06:22.076
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're still, you know, if you're tired, what works part time for them?

01:06:23.358 --> 01:06:37.592
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome guy, you know, we'd him go way back through a program called, we'll start it from MIT called, it was the Lincoln Laboratory, it just asked for, just immediately it's asked for response system.

01:06:38.033 --> 01:06:43.999
[SPEAKER_03]: In order to get in, we ran it as Nick's next generation

01:06:43.979 --> 01:06:49.330
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, when I first saw a tag, I thought, oh, this is, this is exactly, that it was web browser based.

01:06:49.771 --> 01:06:51.234
[SPEAKER_03]: Never really grain a lot of traction.

01:06:51.895 --> 01:06:55.743
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought, oh, this should be the national call, you know, back in the bay.

01:06:57.366 --> 01:07:00.272
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, that's exactly how we made your videos.

01:07:00.292 --> 01:07:00.933
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how we made your videos.

01:07:00.953 --> 01:07:05.903
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a great first sentence to talk to you because we have whiteboarded all kinds of stuff.

01:07:06.220 --> 01:07:09.604
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, talked about requirements and the sort of things that can be done.

01:07:09.644 --> 01:07:11.306
[SPEAKER_00]: So awesome.

01:07:11.847 --> 01:07:12.327
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go.

01:07:12.348 --> 01:07:12.488
[SPEAKER_00]: Easy.

01:07:12.508 --> 01:07:14.991
[SPEAKER_03]: When I came up with that term, I don't want to steal it.

01:07:15.251 --> 01:07:17.053
[SPEAKER_03]: He was like digital safety officer.

01:07:17.113 --> 01:07:20.918
[SPEAKER_02]: I sort of love it sounds like a nice, nice little add-on to the ICS.

01:07:20.938 --> 01:07:23.401
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's yeah, I'll be good.

01:07:23.802 --> 01:07:24.162
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

01:07:24.222 --> 01:07:24.823
[SPEAKER_02]: Right on AJ.

01:07:24.863 --> 01:07:27.126
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, appreciate your time guys and all the best to you.

01:07:27.146 --> 01:07:28.648
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.

01:07:28.668 --> 01:07:28.768
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:07:28.808 --> 01:07:29.248
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

01:07:29.669 --> 01:07:30.330
[SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate it.

01:07:30.390 --> 01:07:32.312
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, guys.