5 | Navigating Disaster Response with Matt Wallace

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[SPEAKER_00]: Attention, buckle in, shelter in place and prepare.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the disaster field show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Driving from Maydon into Oche, Bund Oche, the city they got wiped out, like 100,000 people in 10 minutes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, they've been hit so many times over the decades that've got no choice but to get really good at it although the response from the recovery stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We often, you know, we go to the range we shoot, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We do all sorts of other training activities, but what a lot of people don't do is train train themselves in high stress environments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Real disaster stories told by those on the ground and in the air, followed by a disaster field after action review that turns the lessons learned into actionable takeaways.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so I'm your host, Cole Fullard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Got my co-host Steve Nune here, join us today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And today our guest is Matt Wallace.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Matt's the executive director of the International Disaster Response Network or the IDRN.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And his mission, equipped local responders in a line public, private, and community capabilities.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the first hour is the best hour.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, welcome to the Disaster Field Show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're glad to have you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Glad to be had.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, the description of what we're doing is a little ominous to me, because it sounds more like what you guys do more than what the global network would do, but yeah, that would happen if by things go well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: why don't you run into that actually you know that was uh... you know it's been a lot of uh... lot of great articles that have been you know put out there and and a lot of content that you've been created and why don't you give us a little bit of an overview is to who who who mat walls is and what makes it tick hmm

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[SPEAKER_02]: I am a technologist originally raised in a media rich environment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My parents were both playing a term director.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been around knobs and signals and storylines and scripts and stuff like that for a long time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the technological side of it as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I got a degree in that and I started doing

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[SPEAKER_02]: communication software development, business stuff, and then move from the university environment and to corporate, worked at American Airlines, ended up being the Sabre technology services managing director, it was all the kind of cutting edge networking stuff at the time, back in the 90s.

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[SPEAKER_02]: left that to help a friend of mine build the very first virtual private network in the world for missionaries human human and I can't talk humanitarian types and so that kind of stuck me into the international world we provided communication support when the internet was just barely getting started

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[SPEAKER_02]: less than friendly parts of the world, and that was all before encryption was kind of baked into a lot of the system.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we just did a lot of that kind of stuff, met a lot of people, my wife and I started helping with conferences when people would have them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we just met more and more people internationally and then one thing led to another and we started a non-profit of our own called the Greater Good Global Support Services, which was kind of a concierge service for people living cross culturally.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we did all kinds of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We used a young people as our workforce.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We trained them on geopolitical, technological,

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that put it as right in the middle of some interesting things right around when the tsunami happened in 2004 and then not long after that the next year there was Katrina and before you know it we were very involved in in that that was the first domestic thing we got involved with so all of that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: led to more and more connections, more and more problems solving for interesting people, your name gets out there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then another nonprofit that had a deep pockets from a government contract for private public sector integration that came out of the obvious problems of connecting between the government and private sector during Katrina.

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[SPEAKER_02]: we got kind of pulled into that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then before you know it, I was helping create what was called the International Disaster Response Network.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was part of the team that created that back in 2007.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so we got very involved in disaster response at the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't the only thing we did, but that was one of the things we did.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We did some fairly large response efforts in China.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Myanmar, Pakistan flooding, Philippines, Indonesia, I mean, that's just like the, as they call it, the supermarket of disasters.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then the last major when I was involved with was Haiti, the very first one.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's then the funding associated with all of that went away administration's change priorities change, but the network idea and continued on after it went from like 35 countries down to five, because once money.

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[SPEAKER_02]: kind of dries up a lot of people go away.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the South Koreans, the Malaysians Indonesia, Singapore, Singapore, and mainly, I'd say.

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[SPEAKER_02]: big percentage of it, the Philippines.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Those guys stayed active as IDR in for all these years.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Not outside funding.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They have different, they have different structures, they have different, but the network under IDR and continued all these years.

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[SPEAKER_02]: A couple years ago, I was asked to,

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[SPEAKER_02]: make IDRN actually internationally again.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I got sucked back into it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, technology and media, I think I mentioned earlier, we have a recording studio.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We have a video production company, I'm a film maker as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, just done a lot of communications technology and international stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My production company's called Mustang International.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of the films I've helped produce or international, we did a Syrian refugee and Istanbul.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I just did finishing up a run with a short film out of Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They did really well in the film festival circuit.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Did help with another large,

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[SPEAKER_02]: film out of Kyrgyzstan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's just a lot of different international projects of work going.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it all kind of meshes together.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the real key here is the connections and the trust that you build over the years with people.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that is obviously foundational when you're trying to make things happen in a good way, post is aster.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm working on the short version.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The short version.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What I do is solve problems for people tends to be media or communications technology oriented, but really nothing's off limits.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've worked on all kinds of projects and it's just usually when people don't have any idea where to start.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They need people who are comfortable with doing things that they've never done before.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the vast majority of the projects we've worked on, we had never done before we did them the first time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just, if I could just interrupt here briefly, a couple takeaways.

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[SPEAKER_03]: One, Matt is not your average channels or coach surfer.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You can see that already, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: this guy is on the gold twenty five hours a day three hundred and sixty six days a year it seems you're always up to something um i had a chance here uh we could to go to sit in on a call some of the representatives from the countries that he just mentioned in Southeast Asia and what i saw there was a group of friends

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[SPEAKER_03]: You could just tell them over the years that love, that trust, that respect, the mutual respect, the mutual aid that's gone on, helping each other out in different countries and campaigns.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was there.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I guess those values that you guys were striving for all those years ago when the money was around,

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[SPEAKER_03]: they maintain it, they saw the value in that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that to me is one of the foundational things behind you and you don't and there's there's something about a shared experience, some even even in the disaster space, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: That that really creates a bond that most people don't really realize until you're in that position and we've seen that with

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[SPEAKER_01]: the former McMurray wildfires like all the other events where you didn't even know your neighbor you know until out of that like that happens so like I could imagine just on the international front with these types of organizations you know that does a lot of communication in a really really tough time where

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[SPEAKER_01]: I could imagine the bonds that are created.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we've had experience with that ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just been absolute tremendous.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got to ask though, the five that stayed with you out of the 35, obviously a couple of weeks ago here, the Philippines just got absolutely hammered, you know, by a pretty big event there, the return on investment for them sticking with that is probably tremendous, you know, to be able to maintain that network.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Would you agree?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but the fact the matter is is that these connections can make all the difference in the world in certain circumstances, but really what you alluded to when you introduce this whole thing is that it's the local networks, the local people that are do the vast majority of the work.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And in the Philippines, that group, and an idea in in Philippines, it's a legal entity.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's well woven in with regional and national governments.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They've got history, they've got thousands of people trained.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the leader of all of that, the guy that's the original gangster of it all, he's not even there right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's in Myanmar, because he had scheduled months ago to do training in Myanmar for his third trip in after their event.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He literally called me last night and did a video stream with me with some training.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He was doing with a bunch of people there, and but he's not even in Philippines right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing is is that I don't know how close you've been watching that, but it's cyclones.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's quakes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Earthquake.

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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: and a volcano.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they've got a bunch going on there, and I'm not really that involved with it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Those those guys are engaged.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They are posting things they're doing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to help them more, but when people have their act together and they're in the middle of it,

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what I can do, but go get them, and that's ultimately really what happens more than not because you get a whole bunch of people that are local, that know and are there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to pay for playing tickets, I mean, and so the idea or end doesn't fix or

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[SPEAKER_02]: but we can encourage and provide infrastructure and a whole lot of things, but the real work most of the time is right there on the ground.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so we just wanna encourage people to get better prepared, better trained, better engaged, better connected.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And in this case, they've got it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying they don't need help and I'm not saying they're not, you know, there's so much going on there, it's difficult.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they know what they're doing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They've got practice on it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and we talked about this many, many times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is really about other countries as well to kind of take note of some of these other nations that are being, you know, obviously hammered, you know, on a significant

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... number of of of accounts you know where um... you are your best first line of defense right and when you can see some of these uh... these nations like you know like the Philippines be able to get back up and rebuild and obviously utilize their community uh... the community starts getting further further engaged into the preparedness and the readiness side where is some other uh... little more western leaning countries you know are often throwing

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know throw in the kitchen sink at the response only without paying a lot of attention to the readiness and and the recovery side but some of these other countries as we've we've noticed they're just they're they're fluent right right through the readiness to the to the response and the recovery phases so um you know a lot more attention being paid to that now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So so I'm going to sort of sum that a lot by saying that um

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[SPEAKER_03]: What Matt's just described here really is kind of like a good key study in community resilience.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, they've been hit so many times over the decades that have gotten no choice but to get really good at all the response and the recovery stuff.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But it also builds up the preparedness and to some degree some of the mitigation kind of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and what have you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That trend towards community resilience is talked a lot about in the Western cultures here, certainly in the world that I'm in, but there's only a few good examples of it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's still almost in its infancy, I guess, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And another thing that I've seen that perhaps lens to that sort of context is that a lot of people think when they get into trouble,

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[SPEAKER_03]: And that goes back to your comment a moment ago about the government isn't always necessarily going to be that first line of defense So so mad all the work that you're doing to to get IDRN 2.0 going With the focus around community resilience like I mean as you know, we've we've known each other for a couple years now and We've been involved in a few conversations.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I really really like that direction that you guys have taken and I think it's absolutely necessary for the future

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[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, I got to ask you, um, was there, is there, uh, what was that kind of tipping point in your life, I guess, that you wanted to get, you know, obviously you got a media background, you know, you're, you're clearly passionate about that side of things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, was there a specific event or was there any sort of like tipping point for you that really wanted you to lean into, uh, disaster management, or, you know, anything that leads to the idea or end in what you're doing now?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was a process, I mean, I wanted to help my friends, like I said, the, when I first got into the communications and the virtual private network, my best friend had moved to the other side of the planet and we were helping process their communications as a friend, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We were evidently so good at it that people around them noticed and said, how are you doing this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And my friend said, we've got people.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I know those people are like can you introduce us to your people and so then we started processing for a handful of people and then a lot of people and then before you know it we were processing communications one by one encryption one email at a time

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[SPEAKER_02]: My wife was doing it like six to eight hours a day for people literally around the world.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that was just you know you just you're helping a friend you're solving problems for somebody.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that led to

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[SPEAKER_02]: Years later, we were doing that kind of larger support.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And one of our dear friends, I called, and she had a long history with the military and disaster response.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And she was, I mean, to give you an idea.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This lady passed away a few years ago, a good friend of ours, but the US military flew her on Blackhawks into Iraq.

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[SPEAKER_02]: During the first part of it with a guitar and she would like sing to the troops.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

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[SPEAKER_02]: She had a real interesting relationship with them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And she found ourselves in a ton of really, difficult, most of you wait.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're friends.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm sure it's a new person.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Don't smoke the tea.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, sorry about that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that went down the wrong tube.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to sit here and not breathe for a bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need your sipic up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And there's nothing in here, lad.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So whiskey, free zone.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The thing was is that I called her randomly, not long after the tsunami happened, not really knowing where she was.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, oh my gosh.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It worked.

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[SPEAKER_02]: She was in the back of a truck driving from made on into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into, into,

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[SPEAKER_02]: But but the thing was is that that particular time I just randomly called her and I said hey, how you doing Betsy and she freaked out I didn't know why and she goes I'm the only one that has any communications.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's working right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was a Blackberry yeah, and it was she was the only one that had comms and Right along in a truck so I we spent the next year

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[SPEAKER_02]: supporting her.

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[SPEAKER_02]: As she was doing work there, I mean, she helped very thousands of bodies.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what was interesting is the gentleman I just told you about from the Philippines, he moved there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He lives in that region now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Even though he's from the Philippines, he lives not far from where all that went down.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he was part of that as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So just helping friends and then you help friends and then you build up some skill set.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then like I said, this other organization came in with this mandate and they had the funding and they're the ones that had the idea of idea RIN.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I was on board from the very beginning.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was a natural for me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then even after that went away and I wasn't working with that group anymore and the funding went away, I was still watching idea RIN from afar because they're friends.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I cared about them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But so I went through this phase where I had to pay my bills in the film television industry.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then like I said recently, I mean, I'm still doing this as a volunteer.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is not a paying gig for me, but I care very deeply about it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the possibility of building these networks.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the vision for idea and is significantly larger, but

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[SPEAKER_02]: just connecting new and the Canadians that I've met through this process to that crowd makes me just happy because these are quality people who are doing the thing and they can encourage one another.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They can help one another.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's it's early interesting actually you mentioned like um, I guess in in North America here right now, you know, we've obviously got um, we got a few disasters, you know, obviously plague in us here, uh, L.A. that happened, obviously, and uh, and the Texas fires, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've had we've had a few significant events here, and are you starting to see, are you starting to see like North America and South America's starting to take?

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[SPEAKER_01]: take shape and learning from a lot of these other events that are happening like it seems like a lot of people are just saving to wake up you know into some of the some of the issues that are happening around the world right now would you see that there's a bit of a positive movement that's moving in the space obviously you've seen so many different countries around the world and their capacity what what's your take on on that

20:40.208 --> 20:56.040
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you are assuming some things that may or may not be true, because my involvement has really been on the relational side, and most of my networking has been outside of

20:56.020 --> 20:56.881
[SPEAKER_02]: North America.

20:57.041 --> 20:57.302
[SPEAKER_00]: I see.

20:57.842 --> 21:10.359
[SPEAKER_02]: We're very light in our connections in the Americas because of the historical background, Asia, in Africa, we're by far the heaviest involved parts of that network.

21:10.819 --> 21:16.306
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have personal connections and a lot of different places, but not necessarily disaster responders.

21:17.628 --> 21:24.677
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and the other thing is that I think what you're talking about

21:27.155 --> 21:54.242
[SPEAKER_02]: is the question what I've seen over the years is that it always comes down to pockets on the whole the general public not on the radar because something horrible happened, they saw it on the news and that's really sad and they might send some money or they might check on their cousin but really rarely is

21:55.707 --> 22:01.815
[SPEAKER_02]: the general public shaken out of their complacency because then happened to them.

22:02.937 --> 22:14.972
[SPEAKER_02]: These events, the flooding here in Texas, obviously a massive outpouring of workers and involvement here locally.

22:15.193 --> 22:18.397
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's obvious, but it was obvious around here.

22:18.457 --> 22:21.521
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'd bum, but that happened.

22:21.661 --> 22:25.326
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when you had the hurricanes on the East Coast,

22:26.369 --> 22:30.474
[SPEAKER_02]: crazy amounts of attention for that for a season LA file.

22:30.774 --> 22:32.096
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, Maui happened.

22:32.116 --> 22:34.599
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you, it gets the headlines for a while.

22:35.380 --> 22:44.031
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are people who do wake up, but on the whole, just not all people's radar scope.

22:44.051 --> 22:49.177
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they never happened to me.

22:49.217 --> 22:49.778
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

22:50.568 --> 23:03.667
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, there's, I literally, there's a cart, this is a stretch, but it's so relevant to what you just said is that years ago, there was a play put on by two guys called Greater Tuna.

23:03.727 --> 23:11.158
[SPEAKER_02]: And the hope skit is a bunch of different characters played by two different guys from a small Texas town called Tuna.

23:12.235 --> 23:24.230
[SPEAKER_02]: and they have a radio program and they play all the different characters and it's really funny and it's maybe not as funny to everybody else but it is really true like they nail southern culture.

23:25.091 --> 23:40.150
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the radio portion they're sitting there around the microphone reading the news and and they're got oh just in seven states impacted by nuclear disaster

23:41.277 --> 23:43.579
[SPEAKER_02]: Texas is not included and they just set it down.

23:43.599 --> 23:46.221
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is the mentality.

23:46.241 --> 23:47.102
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I like that.

23:48.243 --> 23:49.984
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just like, it's not us.

23:50.084 --> 23:54.428
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know what to say other than, I think it's always in pockets.

23:54.909 --> 24:01.574
[SPEAKER_02]: You see pockets of people who care and are plugged in and they've got some sort of personal connection.

24:02.055 --> 24:04.417
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody's driven or called to do this, they do it.

24:04.717 --> 24:10.862
[SPEAKER_02]: You see important things happen.

24:10.943 --> 24:11.544
[SPEAKER_02]: on the whole.

24:11.624 --> 24:13.726
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't see anything changing.

24:14.086 --> 24:21.054
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think I don't see real improvement, but I don't know that I am qualified to speak for all of the Americas.

24:21.074 --> 24:30.204
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just, you know, to that point to that point though, I think, you know, this comes back to maybe, you know, we've just come out of this or maybe not even out of it yet.

24:30.324 --> 24:31.405
[SPEAKER_01]: The age of the rage, right?

24:31.446 --> 24:35.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Where everybody has to know what's going on everywhere in the world and has to be, you know,

24:35.530 --> 24:57.792
[SPEAKER_01]: has to have some sort of a movement and some sort of a big you know what do you not know what's going on in the Philippines while you're a bad person if you don't or whatever right so we've seen this very polarized kind of view on on a lot of these different world events where it's a lot it's too much information for the average person to try to try to obviously ingest I think that if we

24:57.772 --> 25:19.155
[SPEAKER_01]: take to take some lessons out of you know the Philippines is a good one for example we don't really know what's going on there but in their world in their container you know everything is going on right and then they're managing that and they're handling that right and and i think it's the network the network connectivity where we can share those experiences from country to country not necessarily have to see it play by play a minute by minute

25:19.135 --> 25:36.296
[SPEAKER_01]: like we've seen with Hurricane Heline and everything else, you know, we might be able to pull a lot a lot better, you know, synergy in lessons learned and how we can be better as a whole, you know, respond to these types of events on, are these events on a community level, right?

25:36.357 --> 25:36.958
[SPEAKER_01]: But,

25:36.938 --> 25:39.843
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we also, right now, it's the information age.

25:39.883 --> 25:47.054
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have this incessant need to ingest every piece of data globally, which just burnout happens, right?

25:47.074 --> 25:48.897
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people put it down and walk away.

25:48.977 --> 25:53.424
[SPEAKER_01]: And we got big holes that are created at the community level, right?

25:53.484 --> 25:55.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.

25:56.589 --> 25:57.089
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sad.

25:57.109 --> 26:00.094
[SPEAKER_02]: When I got invited to work on this project,

26:01.323 --> 26:09.726
[SPEAKER_02]: I had flashbacks because when we were doing what we were doing, the vast, except for Haiti, everything else was on the other side of the planet.

26:09.827 --> 26:12.655
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were providing communications coordination.

26:12.755 --> 26:13.898
[SPEAKER_02]: We were the...

26:13.979 --> 26:16.883
[SPEAKER_02]: the nerve center on the processing.

26:16.903 --> 26:19.948
[SPEAKER_02]: We were doing the logistics support, we were doing the communication support.

26:20.308 --> 26:24.073
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing is, is that you're up all night because they're up then.

26:24.114 --> 26:36.511
[SPEAKER_02]: And then to do all the follow-up, you need to do on what you found out you needed from 12 hours ago, now you're up all day long here, working your own local networks.

26:36.752 --> 26:38.434
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was,

26:40.338 --> 26:42.702
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I can't do that again.

26:43.784 --> 26:45.327
[SPEAKER_02]: We were doing good stuff.

26:45.407 --> 26:48.934
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel good about what we did, but I just like that is not sustainable.

26:49.875 --> 26:52.801
[SPEAKER_02]: We were, we had a lot going on.

26:53.422 --> 27:02.498
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when we started down this path again, I said, anybody who has an idea of restarting idea are in, there's no money.

27:02.765 --> 27:04.107
[SPEAKER_02]: like there was before.

27:04.808 --> 27:20.335
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we've got to take a totally different approach and that burnout managing that for me is key because we want to have these relationships 10, 15 years from now and over the years in international whatever.

27:20.315 --> 27:34.275
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you're talking humanitarian work, disaster work, like missionary work, whatever, you get people to show up hot and heavy and they're, they're, they're excited and they burn themselves out and then they're not there two, three years from now.

27:35.156 --> 27:37.059
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm still here.

27:37.179 --> 27:40.163
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that I'm the most productive.

27:40.143 --> 27:50.494
[SPEAKER_02]: effective person and if work in this area, I know that's not true, but I'm still here and that was relationships and those are really critical.

27:50.555 --> 28:00.225
[SPEAKER_02]: You do not want to be making new friends as little as possible when you're in the difficult situations.

28:00.265 --> 28:02.708
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to be working with people you trust.

28:03.042 --> 28:04.787
[SPEAKER_02]: that you have some history with.

28:05.148 --> 28:13.272
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me, I just want to build, I want to help people build out their network before they need it.

28:13.336 --> 28:23.730
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the trenches is the last last place that you need people swapping out to new green people who you may not know right it's is the age you do it though.

28:24.170 --> 28:33.623
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, no, yeah, but you do it when you have to because sometimes you got to the guys has the thing you need and you just met him 10 minutes ago now you're assessing.

28:33.603 --> 28:35.086
[SPEAKER_02]: is this a good idea or not?

28:35.387 --> 28:42.721
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you have to make the call and and sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't, but it's just the way it works.

28:42.781 --> 28:46.228
[SPEAKER_02]: So you prefer to have your relationships before you get rolling.

28:46.360 --> 29:05.584
[SPEAKER_03]: So I work with a lot of younger emergency management practitioners, people just coming into the business, and my counsel to them always is most important asset you will ever have in this business is your network, the people that you know and trust to have your back at O-Dark 30 when things are going right sideways.

29:05.750 --> 29:12.963
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so Matt, you and I have your reputation in that network because the thing is is that you've got to own it.

29:13.064 --> 29:15.709
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do this long enough, you're going to let somebody down.

29:15.769 --> 29:17.111
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to drop the ball.

29:17.432 --> 29:22.782
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to help somebody who is expecting you to have their back and you just can't for whatever reason.

29:23.363 --> 29:27.150
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to own that stuff the whole time because.

29:27.130 --> 29:38.289
[SPEAKER_02]: You just had to say, I want to, I can't help you right now, but I am still here, but you have to, you can't act like nothing happened.

29:38.730 --> 29:39.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

29:39.050 --> 29:40.673
[SPEAKER_02]: That's tough.

29:40.693 --> 29:41.374
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it all the time.

29:41.434 --> 29:44.579
[SPEAKER_01]: The first casual day in chaos as communications, right?

29:44.619 --> 29:52.092
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's really, really from the most minute amount of communication at a water cooler all the way out to.

29:52.072 --> 30:20.155
[SPEAKER_01]: you know on a on a provincial or countrywide right so it's break down as communication I think that's that's often lost we all want to help each other you know do we do as much as we possibly can I'm I'm obviously somebody who says yes to certain things that I really shouldn't have and we end up three steps further behind because I try to take on something I maybe didn't have the capacity to do and I mean just self awareness you know during during these times is huge right rapid

30:20.135 --> 30:23.199
[SPEAKER_02]: If you drop the ball, you just got to drop the ball.

30:23.219 --> 30:38.517
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we went down here, one of the programs that I'm wanting to develop with idea in is correspondence program where we send and qualified people to kind of move around the peripheral of a response and literally be like reporters.

30:39.158 --> 30:42.982
[SPEAKER_02]: But more than that, networkers is well, and really assess what's happening.

30:43.062 --> 30:47.728
[SPEAKER_02]: And we did a whole, just kind of a, I don't

30:47.962 --> 30:52.848
[SPEAKER_02]: a mini version of that with the Texas floods because we were right here.

30:53.469 --> 31:01.058
[SPEAKER_02]: And so team of two people going in, beating people, trying to assess and find out what's going on, we interviewed a bunch of people.

31:01.138 --> 31:14.475
[SPEAKER_02]: So in our global village, we posted a bunch of these interviews and they talked about their experiences and then we made little reports and lessons learned and all that

31:14.742 --> 31:17.545
[SPEAKER_02]: over half of them are not professional responders.

31:17.605 --> 31:18.726
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they had not done them.

31:18.746 --> 31:20.168
[SPEAKER_02]: They just found themselves in this.

31:20.228 --> 31:24.412
[SPEAKER_02]: So they want a pretty steep learning curve.

31:24.432 --> 31:27.575
[SPEAKER_02]: But we talked to everybody, pros and you know, newbies.

31:28.436 --> 31:38.347
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of the stories we heard about some of just awful clashes that happened all in the name of everybody's trying to help everybody.

31:38.487 --> 31:44.293
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have a very different idea of what's the good way to do that.

31:44.273 --> 31:56.853
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't really lean into it because we're not wanting to be seen as stirring the pot, but just some ugly stories about clashes and how people treated one another as you're doing that.

31:56.973 --> 31:59.918
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just sad, but I know it's true.

32:00.158 --> 32:04.425
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because emotions are heightened and everybody's got

32:04.827 --> 32:31.729
[SPEAKER_02]: They're on a mission and they see themselves in the best light possible and if somebody else is in their way, then they're the enemy and that just flares in the worst kind of ways and I know that culturally that would play out differently depending on where you are every situation is going to be slightly different, but that fundamental stick to itness and ability to weather.

32:32.097 --> 32:35.403
[SPEAKER_02]: bad communications or bad situations.

32:36.124 --> 32:37.486
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's all critical.

32:37.506 --> 32:41.693
[SPEAKER_02]: Because a number of those people that were newbies, they were turned off by it.

32:41.793 --> 32:48.064
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they did their thing, and they were bought into what they were doing, but they're like, I don't know if I wanna do this anymore, people are gonna behave this way.

32:48.825 --> 32:52.131
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, all right, don't go away.

32:53.157 --> 32:58.442
[SPEAKER_02]: what you're seeing and hearing and what is offensive to you is very real.

32:58.763 --> 33:01.425
[SPEAKER_02]: I am here to tell you that is going to happen more.

33:02.126 --> 33:02.226
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

33:02.246 --> 33:08.232
[SPEAKER_02]: But don't let that stop you from engaging in positive ways.

33:10.194 --> 33:12.677
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a kind of training.

33:13.057 --> 33:14.038
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a heads up.

33:14.198 --> 33:21.966
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like people get caught off guard

33:22.756 --> 33:23.537
[SPEAKER_02]: the way it feels.

33:24.238 --> 33:37.214
[SPEAKER_02]: So we try to, like, if we can help people in our network, understand the dynamics that they might be bumping into, then they're likely to have staying with it.

33:37.695 --> 33:38.275
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's high.

33:38.516 --> 33:39.857
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my thesis.

33:39.877 --> 33:51.632
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we should invite Matt Wallace back for another conversation about just some of those types of observations because everything you just described and excuse me in the last five minutes, I've seen firsthand as well, right?

33:51.612 --> 33:55.701
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not unique to Texas, it's universal, I think.

33:56.001 --> 34:04.178
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's not, I just saying, but it was, we document it and, and yeah, that's dicey.

34:04.238 --> 34:08.828
[SPEAKER_02]: Because once you start telling stories,

34:08.808 --> 34:14.475
[SPEAKER_02]: it's like how many details are you going because now you're making enemies because people look bad.

34:15.596 --> 34:21.663
[SPEAKER_02]: They, I could tell you a story about a phone company that did some stuff.

34:21.723 --> 34:22.945
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, they didn't do that.

34:23.085 --> 34:24.487
[SPEAKER_02]: And somebody was like, yeah, they did.

34:25.408 --> 34:26.369
[SPEAKER_02]: That's awful.

34:26.950 --> 34:29.553
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were down there providing communications.

34:29.673 --> 34:32.196
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that what they did was a great value.

34:32.696 --> 34:37.482
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of the individuals

34:37.462 --> 34:40.007
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just long.

34:40.528 --> 34:43.373
[SPEAKER_02]: And the guy was like, yeah, that's what they did to me.

34:43.574 --> 34:45.377
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, wow.

34:45.898 --> 34:52.812
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's just how do you share these stories without, you know, throwing people under the bus?

34:52.952 --> 34:55.116
[SPEAKER_02]: And I believe me, I had

34:55.096 --> 34:56.338
[SPEAKER_02]: I struggled with it.

34:56.378 --> 35:03.709
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I was, as a filmmaker, I was like, I, I feel like I want to do an expose day on this company because that was not cool.

35:04.330 --> 35:06.052
[SPEAKER_02]: But then that's not a good idea.

35:06.072 --> 35:14.445
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Matt, I think I got brings up a really valid point though, too, is that like, we often, you know, we go to the range we shoot, right?

35:14.525 --> 35:19.753
[SPEAKER_01]: We do all sorts of other training activities, but what a lot of people don't do is train

35:19.733 --> 35:22.096
[SPEAKER_01]: train themselves in high stress environments, right?

35:22.116 --> 35:28.185
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you're dealing in the sympathetic nervous system, during these disasters and these events, we've saw it.

35:28.225 --> 35:39.141
[SPEAKER_01]: I've saw it firsthand, you know, when everything's heightened, you know, people are in not really in their best mind because they've never trained in that high stress environment, they start to go into black.

35:39.421 --> 35:42.906
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they go into the black, I'll actually talk to them, you know, like,

35:42.886 --> 35:50.460
[SPEAKER_01]: like a day later and be like, hey, do you want to talk about what happened back in the EOC and they say, what do you mean?

35:50.480 --> 35:51.001
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened?

35:51.341 --> 35:54.287
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say, well, like this happened, they're like, no, that can't be.

35:54.968 --> 36:05.367
[SPEAKER_01]: And it actually came, you know, we've had this, we've seen enough to understand when I was there, you know, we've seen this in multiple accounts when when you're in high stress environments where your brain just blocks it right out.

36:05.347 --> 36:22.562
[SPEAKER_01]: and so even trying to do an after action reporter debrief on on a lot of these events they're not necessarily recalled the way that somebody might think it was right so training in those environments where you might be called names and you might be you know asked to leave or ask a step out or whatever

36:22.542 --> 36:31.114
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's an area that needs a little bit more focus, you know, specifically the takeaways that you and your team are doing to share those events, right?

36:31.135 --> 36:39.647
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the accountability behind that to own that and say, okay, maybe I'm going to take a walk next time before, you know, blowing up on the team or anything like that.

36:39.707 --> 36:43.072
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's a part of training that often gets overlooked, you know?

36:43.152 --> 36:50.743
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and as Matt just mentioned, a moment ago, it's these are part-time practitioners,

36:51.483 --> 36:57.410
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just, what I was going to say is then what you're describing, you're describing people who kind of do this.

36:57.551 --> 37:03.458
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they, they, they may need that training and they may need that help and they may not be full timers.

37:03.939 --> 37:11.508
[SPEAKER_02]: But the way you just describe that, you're talking about people that are not the guy from down the street whose house just went away.

37:11.528 --> 37:11.628
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

37:11.648 --> 37:15.533
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I

37:17.639 --> 37:27.840
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like idea and ultimately to be seen as the most friendly way into this for non-responders.

37:27.900 --> 37:39.343
[SPEAKER_02]: People, normal people, I've told people this before and this sounds crazy, but in the future I would like one out of ten people on the planet.

37:40.994 --> 37:48.562
[SPEAKER_02]: to have heard of IDRN, and their general take on it was, it's a really good place to start.

37:48.683 --> 37:57.072
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the answer, but they will help you find what they're looking for, or they've got, you know, they've got good way to find resources or groups.

37:57.092 --> 38:07.744
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a good front door, and so any human could know that going to IDRN is a way to connect or find some resources, and that,

38:08.348 --> 38:18.042
[SPEAKER_02]: normal people can be in this network and not be full timers, but already be connected and already have awareness of some basic training.

38:18.423 --> 38:26.094
[SPEAKER_02]: So taking masses of people and just moving them in a trajectory like more training.

38:26.454 --> 38:27.876
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying they're all trained.

38:27.916 --> 38:33.985
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying a friendly place.

38:34.066 --> 38:39.587
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, do it in a way where we can have a reputation where hardcore practitioners

38:41.170 --> 38:43.732
[SPEAKER_02]: don't see idea in as a bunch of people don't know what they're doing.

38:44.053 --> 38:55.263
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because we want to expose normal people at whatever level they are to real experts so that when they're hearing these things, they're hearing them from people who know.

38:55.303 --> 39:10.958
[SPEAKER_02]: But that requires for people like Newt and you guys to care about the general population going, hey, we know you don't know anything, but let me help you with some things that might be important.

39:10.938 --> 39:15.867
[SPEAKER_02]: in in quick ways for people who are practitioners to level up.

39:15.887 --> 39:18.272
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's a trajectory thing for me.

39:18.592 --> 39:25.605
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see idea and is the answer for everybody, but I hope that everybody who encounters it is a little better off than they were when they found it.

39:25.645 --> 39:29.352
[SPEAKER_02]: 100% that's the general that's the general play.

39:29.450 --> 39:44.311
[SPEAKER_03]: So Matt, this reminds me of a statement or a comment you made a couple of times in past conversations, and I might I'm paraphrasing here, but basically you quite often observe that a prophet is least recognized in his own home.

39:44.371 --> 39:48.657
[SPEAKER_03]: So when some respects, that's you.

39:48.637 --> 39:58.430
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was listening to a radio talk show this morning here on the drive down and there's another one that came up that also reminded me of you and it was pretty simple.

39:58.490 --> 40:01.815
[SPEAKER_03]: It just said dare and the world will follow.

40:03.497 --> 40:10.126
[SPEAKER_03]: So those two statements in my view encapsulate what it is you're trying to do with the idea and right now and the stage you're trying to get it to.

40:10.807 --> 40:16.855
[SPEAKER_02]: So the vision I was going to ask you about that.

40:19.552 --> 40:20.794
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't make everybody happy.

40:20.914 --> 40:21.816
[SPEAKER_02]: I realize that.

40:22.036 --> 40:32.334
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do believe that there is a general connectivity and awareness that can be improved.

40:32.354 --> 40:35.539
[SPEAKER_02]: I am blown away by hardcore practitioners who do this.

40:35.560 --> 40:40.288
[SPEAKER_02]: They're so much more qualified in some ways than me.

40:40.668 --> 40:43.433
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's a long list.

40:44.729 --> 40:49.755
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, is they don't know about Bob, they don't know about this network over here.

40:49.775 --> 40:52.539
[SPEAKER_02]: They just don't, they know everything, but they don't.

40:52.899 --> 41:03.593
[SPEAKER_02]: And they know that people in their contact list and they've been doing this for years and they're very effective at responding and whatever capacity they do, they're really good.

41:03.653 --> 41:07.658
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, they don't know about this, this, this, and this.

41:08.139 --> 41:10.161
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a whole bunch of people that don't know about them.

41:10.281 --> 41:13.065
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, that's the awareness part that just,

41:13.045 --> 41:14.067
[SPEAKER_02]: blows my mind.

41:14.267 --> 41:15.809
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that we all work together.

41:15.869 --> 41:21.698
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not proposing that we all have to work together, but you can't work with people if you don't know the exist.

41:23.281 --> 41:37.483
[SPEAKER_02]: Even the most qualified people don't know everybody, and if we can somehow or another create an environment that makes it easier for people to find new resources and new connections that are trustworthy when they need it.

41:37.987 --> 41:38.868
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.

41:39.369 --> 41:45.117
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is, you said that about the profit and local thing, yeah, I said that before.

41:45.417 --> 41:47.320
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting.

41:48.682 --> 41:52.247
[SPEAKER_02]: I know growing up out in Texas.

41:52.307 --> 41:53.729
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just, this probably true everywhere.

41:53.749 --> 42:00.298
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, you could have a perfectly good band, but they're the local band.

42:01.578 --> 42:05.223
[SPEAKER_02]: It's better to have a band from Dallas because that's from Dallas.

42:05.243 --> 42:08.228
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's like, if you've got to have somebody from outside.

42:08.288 --> 42:13.956
[SPEAKER_02]: So this guy right now who's in Myanmar doing training, he's qualified to do the training.

42:14.577 --> 42:22.930
[SPEAKER_02]: But the fact that he's not from Myanmar and he's, he came to the internationally, he just gets extra bonus points for that.

42:23.290 --> 42:24.632
[SPEAKER_02]: So we all get.

42:26.317 --> 42:29.283
[SPEAKER_02]: sucked in a little bit that there's this outside expert.

42:29.323 --> 42:30.505
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to listen to him more.

42:30.866 --> 42:34.773
[SPEAKER_02]: There's people as much as I like you knew.

42:35.073 --> 42:37.478
[SPEAKER_02]: There's probably somebody there locally and like this is new.

42:37.498 --> 42:46.114
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not listening to him, but somebody who says the exact same stuff that you say from Geneva or

42:47.377 --> 42:54.073
[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Hannesburg or somebody who's an expert in something could be saying the same thing and somebody might listen to them better.

42:54.113 --> 42:55.957
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is much as that's true.

42:55.977 --> 43:00.067
[SPEAKER_02]: I also want to see idea in the name is amazing.

43:00.328 --> 43:02.613
[SPEAKER_02]: The international disaster response network.

43:02.713 --> 43:03.816
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody ever

43:04.741 --> 43:05.602
[SPEAKER_02]: says, what's that?

43:05.742 --> 43:14.334
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, now they all have probably the wrong idea is to what that is, but the name has weight, the units that stick has some response.

43:14.354 --> 43:15.415
[SPEAKER_01]: No one, everybody gets.

43:15.435 --> 43:19.240
[SPEAKER_02]: So we want to use that to get people to pay attention and maybe get involved in things.

43:19.300 --> 43:22.965
[SPEAKER_02]: They might not get involved if it's just new inviting them.

43:22.985 --> 43:23.165
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

43:23.366 --> 43:25.348
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, I'm picking on you, but you get the bill.

43:25.368 --> 43:28.993
[SPEAKER_03]: You've just described the last 30 plus years of my career right there.

43:28.973 --> 43:33.901
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'd say it's one of those things where everybody who writes a book is perceived an expert, you know what I mean?

43:33.981 --> 43:48.884
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you know, going back to that, the interconnectivity, it's like we, we've talked about this all the time, you know, the disconnection that we have within our own communities and our own, like we all have firewall that is 20 kilometers away from in another firewall.

43:49.425 --> 43:52.450
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is no connection between the two on.

43:52.430 --> 43:56.480
[SPEAKER_01]: multi-user kind of interoperability, you know, between the different practices.

43:56.560 --> 43:58.445
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's adopting their own technologies.

43:58.926 --> 44:01.252
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's adopting their own way of doing things.

44:02.114 --> 44:04.600
[SPEAKER_01]: But often, nine times out of ten, we there.

44:04.620 --> 44:05.643
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a community member.

44:05.924 --> 44:07.688
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a regional district.

44:07.668 --> 44:15.359
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, read down to the fire departments or the police agencies, they all come together to handle one event and then are completely disconnected.

44:15.399 --> 44:27.376
[SPEAKER_01]: So that statement that you mentioned about, you know, one person may know everything in his own little world, but knows very little, the nothing outside of that, that siloed kind of environment, right?

44:27.436 --> 44:27.837
[SPEAKER_01]: And,

44:27.817 --> 44:48.154
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the goal to bring everybody together so that you can be aware, you can know who's who and the zoo, you know, when you show up on a multi user kind of event, that is going to be more paramount now to be able to utilize the new technologies that we have at our fingertips to be able to, uh,

44:48.134 --> 45:04.336
[SPEAKER_01]: obviously offer a force multiplier, you know, to make everybody get everybody connected together so that that whole gap, that response gap on on who to know and where they are is going to obviously be diminished significantly, right?

45:04.396 --> 45:07.240
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a comment though.

45:07.360 --> 45:09.062
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I apologize for interrupting me.

45:09.543 --> 45:13.568
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to clarify something right here because what

45:14.392 --> 45:19.519
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's something that people often assume, and I've seen it happen over and over.

45:21.302 --> 45:27.551
[SPEAKER_02]: We, idea in, is not proposing any kind of system to rule them all.

45:27.571 --> 45:27.991
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's cool.

45:28.011 --> 45:33.799
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, well, but a lot of people are like, oh, well, you're gonna pull everybody together and coordinate everything.

45:33.819 --> 45:38.526
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, no, we are not trying to coordinate everybody because,

45:38.506 --> 46:07.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Every situation is a collection of people who are now cooperating and that collection of people is going to be different the next time and next time and that and that group Should find what is the optimal way for them in that situation to coordinate and we are not going to try to present that system for you because One size will never fit all and so that awareness is where we say hey you're aware of one another you guys go work together

46:07.345 --> 46:07.946
[SPEAKER_02]: We're out.

46:08.066 --> 46:09.629
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not here to coordinate you.

46:09.689 --> 46:13.736
[SPEAKER_02]: You just need to figure out how you guys are going to do it this time.

46:14.076 --> 46:15.458
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to use Bob's system.

46:15.879 --> 46:17.642
[SPEAKER_02]: Bob, everybody can get in Bob's system.

46:17.802 --> 46:18.644
[SPEAKER_02]: Use Bob's systems.

46:19.145 --> 46:26.757
[SPEAKER_02]: But six months from now, Bob may be involved in a project where you use somebody else's system, because that scenario makes that sense.

46:27.238 --> 46:27.278
[SPEAKER_02]: So

46:27.258 --> 46:39.029
[SPEAKER_02]: that awareness is really where we focus, but the coordination, we don't present ourselves just trying to coordinate because you and I, I mean, we, I'm guessing you guys agree with me.

46:39.570 --> 46:40.693
[SPEAKER_02]: The people who are

46:41.467 --> 46:49.955
[SPEAKER_02]: the most on it and the most involved in the most invested, the most trained to have, you know, they, they're also the people, you can't tell them anything.

46:49.995 --> 46:51.997
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't tell them to use our system.

46:52.037 --> 46:53.398
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just a waste of time.

46:53.939 --> 46:55.640
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to do it how they're going to do it.

46:56.241 --> 47:04.008
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those dynamics are really important for people to understand about what our expectations of our network is.

47:04.148 --> 47:08.993
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not trying to say, oh, it feels just use our system then everybody can talk together.

47:08.973 --> 47:12.698
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, is that dynamic's going to play out differently over and over and over.

47:14.781 --> 47:20.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Same idea, the different systems, different expectations every time.

47:20.329 --> 47:20.890
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.

47:20.950 --> 47:21.571
[SPEAKER_01]: I apologize.

47:21.631 --> 47:23.573
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you make a very well.

47:23.754 --> 47:25.055
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you make a valid point.

47:25.116 --> 47:26.057
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's exactly.

47:26.157 --> 47:28.661
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I are talking on the same on the same page.

47:28.841 --> 47:33.327
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why I was bringing that up was more or less to.

47:33.307 --> 47:53.307
[SPEAKER_01]: have any individual who doesn't know where to really go in that time because we they're either we think we know everything or we don't they being able to go to idea and just simply go back to say hey maybe these guys will help point me in the right direction or maybe give me a little bit more information than I otherwise wouldn't have that's kind of where that hole circle was coming back to.

47:53.287 --> 48:13.506
[SPEAKER_01]: was the simple okay there's very high achieving very high performance people that recognize the IDRN as as a really good base you know and support it and and by everybody knowing that okay when I'm stuck in the mud or I'm at the end of the trend I can go back to the IDRN to least give me a little nudge in the right direction.

48:13.486 --> 48:15.149
[SPEAKER_01]: to keep me moving down the road, right?

48:15.169 --> 48:29.415
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I based on this conversation and what I've looked into that ERN has been a really great resource for everybody universally be able to lean on in that time that you need a little nudging the right direction, right?

48:29.515 --> 48:29.976
[SPEAKER_01]: So

48:29.956 --> 48:33.001
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope that we can, in fact, live that out.

48:33.022 --> 48:34.404
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it happens in pockets.

48:35.005 --> 48:37.009
[SPEAKER_02]: The existing relationships, absolutely.

48:37.630 --> 48:50.293
[SPEAKER_02]: The coverage that I think is possible, it's not there, but I think right now, there's like 45 different countries represented by different people, but they're not responders.

48:50.313 --> 48:52.757
[SPEAKER_02]: And it may only be one or two people from a,

48:52.737 --> 48:54.003
[SPEAKER_02]: of one of those countries.

48:54.023 --> 49:00.874
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a long way to go on this, but yes, that is very much what I envision and hope will be true.

49:01.360 --> 49:01.780
[SPEAKER_02]: All over.

49:02.141 --> 49:02.681
[SPEAKER_01]: It's exciting.

49:03.402 --> 49:08.307
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I applaud you for the amount of effort that you put into it and continue to drive into it.

49:08.367 --> 49:18.298
[SPEAKER_01]: And we hope that we can continue these conversations, hopefully in the future, be able to dig into a few more of those points a little bit deeper on a couple follow-up episodes.

49:18.398 --> 49:22.502
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, just again, we want to thank you for taking the time to come here today.

49:22.562 --> 49:27.267
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously have this conversation and get it all out on the table.

49:27.247 --> 49:28.688
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Matt, thanks so much for your time.

49:28.708 --> 49:29.629
[SPEAKER_03]: We appreciate this.

49:30.350 --> 49:35.634
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though you're supposed to be working on your well on your farm, right now.

49:35.654 --> 49:35.915
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm good.

49:35.935 --> 49:37.896
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to be talking to you right now.

49:38.016 --> 49:39.998
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do hope that we can do some more of this.

49:40.298 --> 49:42.881
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe dig in and do some specific things.

49:43.041 --> 49:47.665
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some programs that I'd like to see happen.

49:48.045 --> 49:54.091
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to hear that there may be things happening in Canada that that makes me very happy.

49:54.451 --> 49:56.933
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good model.

49:56.913 --> 50:00.100
[SPEAKER_02]: We can do that too and I'm like, yep, just follow their mood.

50:00.120 --> 50:00.802
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

50:00.822 --> 50:01.423
[SPEAKER_03]: No.

50:01.504 --> 50:12.008
[SPEAKER_03]: I think one of the things we'll do is we'll put a link to the IDRN website in the description box for the media that we put out.

50:12.328 --> 50:14.854
[SPEAKER_03]: The podcasts, the audio and the video and stuff like that.

50:14.834 --> 50:18.041
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully it'll get a few people a few more people interest call.

50:18.121 --> 50:18.762
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm confident.

50:18.822 --> 50:26.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and yeah, like we said, we will look forward to bring in better more conversations of this, uh, of this nature to the table.

50:26.458 --> 50:29.604
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much Matt, thanks man and appreciate it.

50:29.925 --> 50:31.368
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, all the best.

50:31.408 --> 50:34.294
[SPEAKER_03]: Imagine we'll see another call soon.