3 | The Big One: When Earthquakes Strike, Will We Be Ready?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Attention, buckle in, shelter in place, and prepare.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the disaster field show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This earthquake that we're talking about wasn't even anywhere near our own coastline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It started on the other side of the ocean and the ocean on the other side of the Pacific.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The ports.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got sort of three bigger ones in the South end to BC.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're a significant player.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They can't have downtime.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Real disaster stories told by those on the ground and in the air, followed by a disaster field after action review that turns the lessons learned into actionable takeaways.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've spent over 30 years as a fighter fighter here in Vancouver and I've seen my share of disasters.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing prepares you for what I felt that day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was standing on a sea wall when the ground started to shake hard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: At first, I thought it was just another tremor, then the call started coming in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Building swaying, gas leaks, people trapped, and then the ocean pulled back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've read about it, I've trained about it, but seen it in real life, it'll stop your heart.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You look out and see the water, vanish, and you know what's coming next.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A wall of water, taller than anything we've built here, racing towards us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In that moment, I wasn't just a fire chief.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was a father, a neighbor, a human being watching the time run out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You realize quickly how thin the line is between order and chaos, between life and death.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we're here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So although that's not current real today here, it kind of is, you know, we've had our recent scare here a couple of days ago with an 8.8 earthquake out in Russia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, which obviously started a lot of conversations and these conversations started home.

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[SPEAKER_01]: These conversations carry into the workspace and to the emergency management.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we look back, obviously, as to what do we have in place?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where are we living in?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Are we naive?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do we think that we have it figured out?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the common saying that says, everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So this obviously opens up a lot of conversation here today on where is emergency management, where is our communications systems at right now?

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[SPEAKER_01]: What does our situation awareness look like?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, you know, the big event, big quake that everybody's waiting for.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know Steve, what's your thoughts on this one?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I've got several thoughts on the big one and folks could see the air quotes that I'm using right now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to share some context with you and then just share some thoughts and and I've got some insights and some opinions because I authored part of the original provincial plan in 2016 here in British Columbia so so I kind of know what the provinces thinking and what they plan on doing and and I know where some of the gaps are so I think this is an awareness thing more than anything but you mentioned that 8.8 earthquake.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and it happened in a remote area of the North Pacific on the Pacific Rim on the ring of fire, whatever you want to call it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: 46 miles deep.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we've got this big, big, very active earthquake quakes on around the perimeter of the Pacific.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so great.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was in a remote location, the very little damage.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody injured that I really am aware of or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But what really got my attention when I was watching the news stories about it is our provincial leadership was going, Wow, fortunately it didn't hit us, but yay us, it tested our systems.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We were prepared.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I got some thoughts on that, and I just want to share here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So first of all, this earthquake threat off the west coast.

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[SPEAKER_03]: What's basically happening out there?

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's something called the Cascadia Subduction Zone, and I think perhaps the easiest way to kind of describe it is there's two plates, and one plate has started to fall under the other end bend, and at some point it's going to release and flick up, and it's going to

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I would hope that this part of its obvious, but when and if this does happen, and all the indicators are that it's a sooner rather than later thing, it's not going to stop at the Canada U.S.

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[SPEAKER_03]: border, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to be hit in the west coast of Canada to some degree, often down the west coast of the United States where there's some massive population centers, they're going to be hit, so it's a pretty substantial kind of an event, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and when I look at this, um, and let's just pick, uh, south end of Vancouver Island, so with the capital regional district Victoria area, you know, squimalt some of those communities, uh, metro Vancouver area, um, uh, around the lower mainland, that big cluster of, uh, of communities.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and then maybe, uh, the whole coastline as well, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So,

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[SPEAKER_03]: Just between Metrovan and the Capital Regional District, if I count up all the local governments and first nations, there's at least 67 entities.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That have population centers, that have emergency programs, have responder programs of some sort, that are going to be very, very busy when something happens.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And if I can paint a real simple picture for you,

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[SPEAKER_03]: Remember as a kid when you were walking in the bush and you saw an ant nest and you kicked it or hooked up with a stick because you had to because that's what kids do, okay?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you just saw the sudden you saw thousands and thousands of ants just running around in this mad frenzy, starting to repeat tree through eggs to a safe location and all that sort of stuff, I kind of likened what the first few operational periods of a big major seismic event in the Lower Mainland course are going to be like and that's the easiest way I can use to describe it that everybody would understand, there's just going to be

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm trying to be a doomsday theorist and make this stuff up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm not.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You just need point back to some of the big flood and fire events we've had in the last 10 years in BC history.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They were historical impact events.

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[SPEAKER_03]: how the collective response and recovery by the province and all of the supporting and assisting agencies and local governments and First Nations communities and everybody else, how they kind of tried to pull all that stuff together.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Big gaps in some of that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we still have some communities from from the floods in the fires several years ago that haven't fully recovered.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, in the whole area and and and have us there's a whole of those areas.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So so,

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[SPEAKER_03]: What are we doing about it?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so the province has led a few kind of planning initiatives, if you will.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that lower mainland metro van area, there's something called iPrem, so the integrated partnership for regional emergency management, and it's close cousin over on the South Island capital regional district, you know, just around Victoria called ramps, which is the regional emergency management program.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Collectively all the community serve come together and they've built a little bit of a plan around how they're all gonna work nice together When the big one hits and share resources and and jointly prioritize and stuff.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I can tell you It's not gonna quite be as warm and fuzzy and unicorns and fairies as all of that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think you're gonna see

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[SPEAKER_03]: challenges around scarce resources, both procurement and prioritization and assignment of use.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Sort of stuff, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I wanted to, I just want to touch on that, you know, for you mentioned resources, you know, obviously, you know, in the 20, a lot of the other events that we've had, but specifically the atmosphere, river that came through, you know, and in 2021 that devastated our infrastructure, you know, highway infrastructure, you know, we're talking about an earthquake

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one thing I got to draw attention to is that this, this, this, this, this earthquake that we're talking about wasn't even anywhere near our own coastline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It started on the other side of the ocean on the other side of the Pacific.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We got a lot of other events at play here that could affect us directly on this coast even if it isn't the fault or it is anything else that's happening, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: directly on our coastline, you know, but when those things happen and these you get these these massive, you know, seismic events, we're going to see destabilization of mountain passes, we're going to see destabilization of bridges and fall into bridges like we've seen the water, the power, the absolute devastation that mother nature can deliver.

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, just with water force alone, you know, in that atmospheric river.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So when these infrastructure starts getting blocked off, like we have a plan, but again, that plan has two highways to get in down into Vancouver.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as those highways are blocked off, it could be a whole province away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, your plan B just went hell and a handbars getting your shit out of lock, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, the military and you know this well, military's got

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[SPEAKER_03]: no plan survives first contact with the end of the right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we did plan till the cows come home and there's always going to be something weird happened right up front, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so you mentioned the atmospheric river back in 2021, well our main transportation arteries were cut off rail and road were cut off to the lower mainland for a few days.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know credit to the folks at highways and in the railways and all the other

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[SPEAKER_01]: outfits, you know, the pipelines was a crowd how quick they came together and restored the services to get them yeah, function at a basic, thank god, we had a pipeline being put in down there because man's equipment we had a lot of equipment, you know, macro and and so ours and all those other companies out there like a shout out to them because there's there's a

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[SPEAKER_03]: a huge amount of resources that I redirected directly to rebuilding these these roadways and our infrastructure right you bet I just want to put another context on this and that is The ports so we've got sort of three bigger ones in the south end of BC the port of Vancouver being the biggest one of course And think arguably they feed about 10% of the Canadian economy are the gross domestic product right there a significant player

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[SPEAKER_03]: They can't have downtime or it hurts the rest of us.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Victoria's got a smaller point and I've always got a small report and depending on where the event and the waves might hit up north as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, in through per area, they've got a deep water port up there, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, so there's lots of really, really potential signal or significant impacts, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I bring this back to the initial response and the initial stages and all those gazillions of ants just running around madly trying to do something because I kind of think that's how it's going to be for a while.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And when I say ants, I'm talking all the police fire ambience, responder, organizations, all the public works, folks, all of the medical system folks, all the hospitals and all of that sort of stuff, there's just

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know, all the populations of vulnerable folks, you know, the elderly, the young, the infirm.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's just so much complexity around all of this sort of stuff going on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, what I see the biggest challenges around all of it?

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[SPEAKER_03]: communications.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have a good solid communications plan.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have a good solid common operating picture for information situation or awareness.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll draw a couple of examples here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And again, this isn't meant to be a slide on anybody, but the problem CBC through a provincial organization called GOBC has got something they call the common operating picture.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a it's a it's a spatial map display online using the ARC GIS tool.

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[SPEAKER_03]: and it's really it's a dashboard so it displays information.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But the information that comes into that

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's, in a few cases, there's some feeds, so there's some API calls, there's web mapping services, you know, coming in, so there's a few automated kind of pieces, but the majority of the information is coming from the people that are having the bad day, so the local governments and their websites, and I know for a fact that keeping websites updated and current isn't always the first priority in some of these organizations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: massive latency.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So the information that's there, it's limited and it really does only push one way.

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[SPEAKER_03]: In my view, a true common operating picture has got the two way.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, communications, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you're sharing this, you're gathering data from reputable sources, you're turning it into actionable intelligence, you're doing something about it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's, you know, let's talk about communications for second then, you know, in an event like this, as we well know bandwidth as a major factor, right, but when towers are destabilized, when cell towers are down, you know, our, our biggest limiting factor in most emergency management, you know, let's call it the pace model, right, like in being able to, you know, understand what your communication fall back points are or what your redundancy is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people haven't got past the threshold 5G kind of capability right so being able to think that you know that cellular we can't I can't even get freaking cell service in downtown Colona let alone you know like during an event like that where where infrastructure is destroyed or damaged

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of these servers, a lot of these websites are actually held in, you know, the servers are in Vancouver.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, when we talk about complete power outages and grid downs, you're going to see a severe impact on this situational awareness in the way that they have a laid out right now from what we've seen or what we've researched, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, it really is about resiliency and redundancy, you know, that is reliable, you know, because that event

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think he's going to shock people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we realize that we say, oh, our debit card always works or credit card always works right until it does until the internet sounds right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, how many of you got to have a big back gold coins in every week?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, like, you go into a store and it's like, sorry, the Rogers, you know, networks down, you can't buy anything here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're using a card, right, we're seeing more and more of that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we got to think about this, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: this specific earthquake event, you know, all the organizations that you laid out here that are working on it and doing amazing work at what they're doing inside their own groups and their own silos.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're good at what they do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's it's it's about allowing them allowing them to do

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[SPEAKER_03]: better that you know Ross looking at how do we do this better you know in a massive joint operational capacity right like you said that two-way tactical communication that so so let's look at what the grand scheme of things looks like when the big one hits so our provincial emergency our provincial government emergency response activities are coordinated by one ministry based in Victoria and they've got a facility

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[SPEAKER_03]: and I've been at that facility many times back in the day and they're response to the fires in 2017 that that burnt up a big chunk of the chill coat and right yeah yeah yeah it was just a rent more space and higher and more people and expand.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that building, call it seismic proof if you want I mean I would be a little skeptical about it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's in the middle of potentially the earthquake zone.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So their plan B when I was there was while there was another retrofitted building in downtown Victoria that

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[SPEAKER_03]: And to which I thought, well, if you read back on some of the old insurance bureau of Canada reports from about 10 or 12 years ago, right, the identify that Victoria itself has got a lot of old wooden buildings, and that most of the damage would probably come from fire.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So then if those two are compromised, the plan was, well, let's move over to the story facility.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Except for if Victoria's got a bad day going on,

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[SPEAKER_03]: So the service facility would be focused on the regional support side of it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So the next option of course is to come to the interior to Camlips.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So back in the day that was kind of sort of...

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[SPEAKER_03]: I can only just understand it's been improved on the planning for that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So they've moved to a new facility that's bigger that they can put more people in.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's in a flood zone right beside a rail yard with a ton of hazardous materials.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So another accident going on at the same time compromises that capability, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then by the same token, you mentioned you were with Princess Pat's.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So Edmonton is going to mobilize a whole bunch of military resources and they're coming to

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[SPEAKER_03]: Um, the province of Alberta emergency management agency, without request the current planning says if there's a bad earthquake, they're starting to send a whole bunch of resources and there's a big list of stuff they'll send.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's all coming to come.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're seeing like, you know, you know, amazing organizations as part of Canada Task Force to, you know, for for quite a few years, they're, you know, in just seeing how they operate, you know, when we deployed in 2016, the four McMurray wildfires.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, having, you know, we showed up and there's one person in the hallway and that was the UFC, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, setting up that whole UFC from the ground up as an organization, like we see that we have five teams right across Canada, Task Force 1 being in Vancouver, Task 1st 2 and 3, 4 and 5 big right across the country to the maritime.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, with Task Force 2 being in Calgary and making its way in, you know, again, we, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: we look at how we're doing these training exercises right now because you know these training exercises there's lots of work being done on the big event right on the on that on that specific scenario um but again it's about it's not one thing about being at the disasters about getting to the disaster in the first place right

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, so, what gets my attention about that comment is that's awesome, you know, task force to come on in, you're welcome, set up your emergency operations center.

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[SPEAKER_03]: How are you going to talk to the other folks?

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[SPEAKER_03]: How are you going to talk to the local governments, the responder agencies, the first nations, the non-government organizations, if the traditional conventional means like cellular or pressure landlines or the internet are compromised.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We got lower thought lights coming in.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just saw a thing the other day about

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[SPEAKER_03]: offer an additional plan for like $10 a month.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: To give you a lower thwart like Leo connectivity.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that's an early indicator of what's coming because we know Amazon and Bezos is racing to put a bunch of stuff up there.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Elon Musk is doing the same thing through Tesla and SpaceX and groups like that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a bunch of that coming and good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's just another backup system.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But that doesn't solve the problem of communicating and integrated communications.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That just means you got connectivity so you can talk or you can share data, right?

18:15.758 --> 18:15.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

18:15.958 --> 18:17.259
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a big gap around this.

18:17.440 --> 18:27.728
[SPEAKER_03]: And to my knowledge, there isn't anybody currently that has got the answer to that within the provincial government planning scheme or the federal government planning scheme.

18:28.048 --> 18:30.771
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it really comes to how to like allowing

18:31.583 --> 18:49.410
[SPEAKER_01]: the innovation that's here today to do its thing like you know don't don't hold the back like let it let it do its thing but we need you know these these emergency management groups you know all the be those provincial municipal anything is to really open their minds and and allow a lot of these you know

18:49.830 --> 18:56.276
[SPEAKER_01]: not individually, not in small widgets, but some of the solutions that are being brought to the table right now for that breaking down those silos.

18:56.777 --> 19:11.531
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really, that's really what should be the title of this, this show here, this episode today is really, I know Buster's silo Buster's breaking down those silos between these agents because what they do individually and what they're doing even collectively on the conversation level is incredible, right?

19:11.631 --> 19:13.493
[SPEAKER_01]: And working out the plans and that's what stuff.

19:14.490 --> 19:35.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a real gap there between what we do on paper versus what we're doing in reality and what we're doing on joint training exercises, you know, where we can actually bring back that data and that feedback, you know, on a common operating platform, you know, our user interface that allows you to really see and play back, you know, these events and play out the big, the big event like we're talking about this big earthquake.

19:36.392 --> 19:53.650
[SPEAKER_01]: or what we even just had, like what we even just had in this 8.8 should be a wakeup call, you know, for the average emergency management group citizen, you know, residential, commercial building, you know, businesses, especially businesses, you know, how you're impacted, you know, right, right into the international space.

19:54.090 --> 19:57.574
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we got one of the largest coal export, you know, ports in Vancouver.

19:57.754 --> 20:01.919
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if that gets cut off, that's going to send shockwaves into the stock market as well, right?

20:01.939 --> 20:10.408
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of these, there's a lot of these overlapping emergency management plans that need to communicate well with each other, you know?

20:10.906 --> 20:33.905
[SPEAKER_03]: But the plans themselves, like that's a whole different kind of button you can just push with me, I recall reviewing some plans in the context of writing this provincial emergency plan for years ago, and I'll pick one location and I won't say where it is, but there was one facility that had the local government using it for their purposes, the military was going to use it for their purposes.

20:35.453 --> 20:38.577
[SPEAKER_03]: And the corner service was going to use it as a temporary morgue.

20:38.997 --> 20:39.458
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it is.

20:39.478 --> 20:43.663
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I found that out, I just went, I don't think that's going to work too well.

20:43.683 --> 20:45.004
[SPEAKER_03]: You guys should be talking.

20:45.224 --> 20:45.985
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody has a point.

20:46.085 --> 20:47.707
[SPEAKER_03]: And those examples are all over the place.

20:47.747 --> 20:53.193
[SPEAKER_03]: And all point to specifically to a very large municipal airport down in the lower mainland.

20:54.615 --> 20:56.236
[SPEAKER_03]: the local government says this is ours.

20:56.716 --> 20:58.817
[SPEAKER_03]: We're using it for what we're going to use it for.

20:58.837 --> 20:59.317
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

20:59.377 --> 21:08.102
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the province has got designs on it because it's a natural place for a very large logistics support hub to bring in national and international support by air.

21:10.203 --> 21:15.867
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's all these kinds of plans and, and it's great and we've got these big binders that sit on the shelves collecting dust.

21:16.347 --> 21:21.111
[SPEAKER_03]: But at the end of the day, it still comes back down to that communications interoperability thing.

21:21.471 --> 21:23.532
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where our biggest risk exposure is.

21:24.233 --> 21:26.774
[SPEAKER_03]: The answer just going to be running around and they're not going to be talking to you.

21:26.814 --> 21:32.959
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, you know, where just what jumps out to me right now is, you know, again, the individual resident, you know, within the lower main mind, right all the way along the coast.

21:32.979 --> 21:38.002
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

21:38.562 --> 21:40.923
[SPEAKER_01]: All the way up to Alaska, you know, any of these things, right?

21:41.324 --> 21:47.566
[SPEAKER_01]: Day point eight that we just had the other day in Russia, you know, and how that kind of spooked everybody, everybody was texting each other about it.

21:47.687 --> 21:51.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, even I sent it to my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, because I know they're down on the island, right?

21:51.308 --> 21:58.492
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, okay, if you guys are planning on going fishing today, just be aware of the, you know, the changing environments, you know, that potentially could affect you.

21:58.512 --> 21:59.992
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to compete with us?

22:00.032 --> 22:00.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

22:00.833 --> 22:04.835
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so, you know, like, we were all talking about it, just like we're right now around

22:06.448 --> 22:09.392
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the dinner table, we're all talking about wildfire risk.

22:09.412 --> 22:14.077
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about the edb's, obscenely high, you know, insurance premiums right now.

22:14.117 --> 22:15.619
[SPEAKER_01]: People not be able to get to insurance.

22:16.139 --> 22:25.210
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we're seeing that effect and it doesn't matter if it's tornado or the floods that we had down in Texas, you know, all the devastating events that are happening around the world, including conflict zones.

22:25.250 --> 22:26.632
[SPEAKER_01]: This all has a risk waiting.

22:27.192 --> 22:36.839
[SPEAKER_01]: For global insurance and and what we're playing on this, but I go immediately to the thought and I can play it in my mind And I encourage everybody to kind of like think about this.

22:37.359 --> 22:43.524
[SPEAKER_01]: What happens when you get 9 million people trying to get out on the same highway through hope

22:44.820 --> 22:50.266
[SPEAKER_01]: hard stop, you know, like, you have, of course, they're, you know, but you're not, you can't guarantee the U.S.

22:50.306 --> 22:55.431
[SPEAKER_01]: is going to allow people down and through Delta or Highway 33 is not like 33 is two lanes wide.

22:56.052 --> 23:00.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we see, everybody, one person rolls vehicle or a semi truck falls into ditch and that highway shut down.

23:01.257 --> 23:06.142
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so like that to me is my immediate kind of go to of like,

23:06.763 --> 23:28.881
[SPEAKER_01]: logistically that's a hell of a thing to manage you know and it's one thing to get them out it's another thing to bring all the resources in and it's yet another thing to find a place for all these people exactly and and that's kind of where I'm getting at is that you know you get up in the cam loops are merit and and the overwhelming flood you know flood of you know people coming in we obviously have you know significant devastating effects that come with that

23:29.602 --> 23:33.443
[SPEAKER_03]: We go a lot as a little in Mavis, you guys are going camping in Newfoundland for a while.

23:33.483 --> 23:38.565
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know, like we're seeing this in northern Saskatchewan right now, a Manitoba with the air lifts, right?

23:38.585 --> 23:39.966
[SPEAKER_01]: The military's airlifted people out.

23:40.446 --> 23:44.627
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're just plopping them into a larger, larger,

23:52.532 --> 24:12.069
[SPEAKER_01]: you know with many times over I mean that maybe is for another day is you know some of the the stats that have come out with with people being dropped into all these other urban areas and and the influences and the enticements exactly so like yeah you know going back to going back to the the earthquake you know or the big one let's call it

24:12.945 --> 24:23.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, where do you see us best, you know, best focusing on right now in 2025 into this fall, you know, obviously 8.8 in Russia.

24:23.739 --> 24:25.181
[SPEAKER_01]: It woke a lot of people up.

24:25.682 --> 24:30.528
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you see our best focus in a core area to be looking at right now to help to start to like,

24:31.503 --> 24:33.004
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll establish this communication.

24:33.024 --> 24:34.264
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's kind of two.

24:34.344 --> 24:38.205
[SPEAKER_03]: And the one obvious one is, hey, everybody, get prepared, right?

24:38.305 --> 24:38.506
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

24:38.606 --> 24:48.409
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't just have 72 hours of food and water there because you're going to run out and guess what, the supplies won't necessarily be there in three or four days.

24:48.589 --> 24:55.912
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and instead of trying to hold on to 20 or 50 gallons of water, go in front of yourself a nice little portable water filter, so you can pull stuff out of a ditch.

24:56.272 --> 24:58.613
[SPEAKER_03]: At least you'll be able to survive, but you might not like the test, you know?

24:59.073 --> 25:23.487
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things when I was fresh out of the military, you know, there's this, there's this big kind of like I go home and I'm looking at things in a different light right my dad, we grew up, but we grew up in a hunting family, you know, and my dad, you know, he carries his leave or action 30 odd six and if you're to ask him, you know, you know, what would you do if like, you know, should hit the fan and, you know, somebody was trying to come in and he's like, I got my good old trust you open site leave or action to me on six, right.

25:24.187 --> 25:49.824
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you come in after the military I was like okay, it's one thing dabbed the rifle right to be able to protect your property or whatever you got to do it's a whole other thing I started asking like how you're going to carry all your ammo how you're going to carry supplies you know like and so I think there's a you know going back to The whole supply or again that rations do you even have the means logistically to be able to move those rations if needed be do you have an ability to actually like

25:50.624 --> 25:57.508
[SPEAKER_01]: Minister your plan because you're you ride electric bike, you know, you don't actually own a car You know, you there's a lot of these.

25:57.848 --> 26:15.477
[SPEAKER_03]: So the solution of that is Anybody in the lower mainland in the urban centers Where they can't go back to their home right say their apartment or what house has been compromised or burnt or whatever How are they gonna basically carry and protect?

26:16.898 --> 26:42.351
[SPEAKER_03]: 10 or 20 days worth of supplies right exactly so that's the one obvious one different topic altogether but the biggest one I think we need to be focusing in on is that communications piece that communications interoperability that's the it's the biggest risk exposure in all of this stuff because if we don't have the the more common and reliable forms of communication for for data sharing and and situational awareness sharing and and research requesting and all that

26:43.800 --> 26:44.360
[SPEAKER_03]: We're screwed.

26:44.520 --> 26:45.241
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

26:45.481 --> 26:47.422
[SPEAKER_03]: People will just be left to do things on their own.

26:47.962 --> 27:00.409
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I look at the lower mainland in particular, and I'm assuming it's the same and any of the larger urban areas around the world for that matter is a lot of the responders do not live in the same community where they work.

27:01.269 --> 27:08.733
[SPEAKER_03]: So when the roads and the bridges are knocked out, so look at the North Shore down in the lower mainland, the majority of the people there don't live in one of the lower North Shore communities.

27:09.193 --> 27:27.537
[SPEAKER_03]: right and so up the sea to sky high we've got the big landslides by Lions Bay that always come down and block the highway and that's a very big risk when there's an earthquake and then you got the bridges okay the two main bridges right yeah Lions getting seal workers yeah uh those things are going to be compromised or at the very least impossible until they've been cleared by engineers

27:27.817 --> 27:27.937
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

27:28.077 --> 27:32.260
[SPEAKER_03]: And if the engineers aren't readily available, you can only do so much with a drone or a sensor, right?

27:32.360 --> 27:32.620
[SPEAKER_03]: I see.

27:32.860 --> 27:36.282
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so that's another inherent challenge in all of the stuff.

27:36.302 --> 27:38.924
[SPEAKER_03]: The hospitals, most of those people, like at St.

27:38.964 --> 27:45.148
[SPEAKER_03]: Paul's don't live within walking distance, they're wailed in the burbs, you know, they're laying in an absford in places like that.

27:45.208 --> 27:48.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so you're going to see, like, you're going to see massive traffic jams as we do everywhere.

27:48.750 --> 27:48.890
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

27:49.290 --> 27:50.891
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time we have a vent anywhere else.

27:53.095 --> 28:10.298
[SPEAKER_01]: majority of our our response workers are going to be trapped in those I mean at least in how many countless movies you know even on Netflix that are like you know there's the guy that's racing to get back and he's on his phone you know and he's like you know do this this this you know get back ready and get that ready I'll be there you know and he's trying

28:10.378 --> 28:11.098
[SPEAKER_01]: This phone does.

28:11.158 --> 28:11.959
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

28:12.059 --> 28:17.722
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's trapped in any trapped in, you know, the traffic jams that we, we obviously experience every day.

28:18.242 --> 28:18.362
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

28:18.382 --> 28:23.184
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just experience it every day on people's need, want need to come and vacation in the Okonang and Valley.

28:23.644 --> 28:34.610
[SPEAKER_01]: We're experiencing traffic jams just for that, you know, let alone what we've seen in the 23 wildfires, what we've seen up in, up in Foremic Murray or in Jasper, you know, 25,000 people that are being evacuated.

28:35.231 --> 28:39.359
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you got people that are trying to get in at the same time people are trying to get out, right?

28:39.660 --> 28:44.730
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that you talk about the landslides along the coast, you know?

28:45.982 --> 28:49.865
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be probably one of our biggest damning access and egress.

28:49.985 --> 28:50.986
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

28:51.226 --> 28:54.048
[SPEAKER_03]: Four responders for medical support for supplies, all of it.

28:54.168 --> 28:54.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

28:54.368 --> 28:55.509
[SPEAKER_03]: It would be disrupted.

28:55.809 --> 29:02.514
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is really, you know, unfortunately like that, the lower mainline really is in a catcher's mid of mountains there.

29:02.674 --> 29:09.819
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, it's, it's a lot of those mountains that become destabilized are going to impact communications, you know, incredibly.

29:11.300 --> 29:29.415
[SPEAKER_01]: in a negative way, so then where do you see the average citizen right now like the, you know, let's call it a business owner residential owner, you know, for them being able to better prepare themselves, you know, for these events and reaching out and engaging with their municipal or their emergency management group, where do you think that best?

29:29.924 --> 29:38.609
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, there'll always be some personal preparedness brochure with the local government ads or some stuff on the website and that's a good place to start.

29:38.649 --> 29:41.070
[SPEAKER_03]: But let me tell you about my wife and I have done.

29:41.530 --> 29:44.992
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to preface this by saying, I don't have a bunker.

29:45.593 --> 29:48.054
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not an extreme survivalist.

29:48.294 --> 29:57.059
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have 157 guns locked in a safe downstairs or anything like that, but we've done a few things, right?

29:57.159 --> 29:58.400
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got a garden.

29:59.480 --> 30:09.308
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and we grow a lot of our own vegetables we can and at any given time we've got probably four to six months worth of food down there is it going to be a gourmet dinner every night.

30:09.428 --> 30:11.029
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but is it going to be healthy and taste good?

30:11.569 --> 30:12.130
[SPEAKER_03]: Hell yeah.

30:12.530 --> 30:14.492
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not willing to share with your addresses.

30:14.792 --> 30:18.235
[SPEAKER_03]: So the unfortunate part is most of our neighbors who are not prepared.

30:18.935 --> 30:23.779
[SPEAKER_03]: they know this and they sort of have jokingly say if something happens to have to put a place right for sure.

30:23.879 --> 30:28.823
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to get my mind wrapped around that still, but but so we've got that, so we've got solar panels.

30:29.164 --> 30:39.652
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got a backup power system coming that'll be portable that I could throw in a car and I've bought it for the cabin but it'll give us backup power and a solar panel that feeds that.

30:40.273 --> 30:41.474
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've got that sort of stuff.

30:43.364 --> 30:45.885
[SPEAKER_03]: I always keep extra gas, so I got 20 gallons of extra gas.

30:46.086 --> 30:53.250
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got a dual fuel generator that runs on propane and gas, and I've got a 100-pound propane tank that's full all the time.

30:53.950 --> 30:56.271
[SPEAKER_03]: Plus, I can put gasoline in if I need.

30:56.291 --> 31:02.475
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and if we use it sparingly on just a few of the critical circuits, we've got several days of backup.

31:02.615 --> 31:06.778
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so there's all those sort of little things you can do, we've got a couple of cats.

31:07.238 --> 31:10.820
[SPEAKER_03]: So, out in the garage, we got a couple of totes that are full of cats.

31:11.600 --> 31:15.201
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I tell you, you're still talking about rations as like you don't know, not 30.

31:15.301 --> 31:17.842
[SPEAKER_03]: So I guess we can eat the cattle if we need to, right?

31:17.862 --> 31:19.763
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, we got rain barrels.

31:19.843 --> 31:27.745
[SPEAKER_03]: We got 350 gallon rain barrels that are almost always full, um, plus we got, you know, the hot water tank that you can drain, there's another 40 to 60 gallons, right?

31:27.865 --> 31:28.005
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

31:28.225 --> 31:35.448
[SPEAKER_03]: So things, there's, there's just all those sorts of things, um, that anybody can do it costs a little bit of money, but you just plan for it over time.

31:35.508 --> 31:35.668
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:36.628 --> 31:37.349
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you're prepared.

31:37.550 --> 31:44.618
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and in going back to the to the big one, it really is, you know, it is is really about that advanced warning.

31:44.658 --> 31:49.064
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think what we're talking about here, the main word is time, timing communication.

31:49.680 --> 32:03.356
[SPEAKER_01]: So the communication gives us the time to effectively respond in an organized fashion, whatever that's going to be because, I mean, you can, anybody can shoot that where it's going to be organized, but it's definitely not.

32:03.717 --> 32:06.700
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think time is everything, right?

32:06.740 --> 32:08.102
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that information on time,

32:08.784 --> 32:12.425
[SPEAKER_01]: is going to make the difference for survivability in, in events like this.

32:13.145 --> 32:15.766
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's some, there's some technology plays here for sure.

32:15.826 --> 32:21.967
[SPEAKER_03]: So Palmer Alaska's got a big, big earthquake tsunami detection system there.

32:22.067 --> 32:22.827
[SPEAKER_03]: It's run by the U.S.

32:22.847 --> 32:25.728
[SPEAKER_03]: Geological Service and assume something happens.

32:25.828 --> 32:26.868
[SPEAKER_03]: They report out to everybody.

32:26.888 --> 32:30.969
[SPEAKER_03]: So all the governments and whatever get and the communities get the messaging and that's good.

32:31.609 --> 32:37.271
[SPEAKER_03]: There's another group called Ocean Networks and they are on the tail end of a pretty substantial

32:39.952 --> 32:56.740
[SPEAKER_03]: deployment, I guess, if you will, of a bunch of sub-marine, so not sub-marine with a captain but under water sensors, they've got terrestrial centers, sensors, you know, they've got the ones that float on the water, and so we're getting closer to an early warning system, but we don't have a predictive system.

32:57.700 --> 33:11.972
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, although if you prompt chat CPT with using a good structured engineer prompt, it turns back some real interesting information on where things the next one is going to hit right, it gets pretty precise in terms of location, but nonetheless, so we've got those kinds of things.

33:12.912 --> 33:19.198
[SPEAKER_03]: Are we ever getting to get to the point where, like the animals, they just know what's happening, so they head to high ground before it even happens.

33:20.282 --> 33:25.547
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know, it's maybe somebody real smart will figure something out someday, but we're not there for sure, right?

33:25.567 --> 33:31.493
[SPEAKER_03]: So so we're we're still very much and most of our emergency measurements is very much around reacting to something, right?

33:31.513 --> 33:39.021
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and and you know, and going into that, you know, we got amazing open source data or data that's being driven by government bodies.

33:39.941 --> 33:41.222
[SPEAKER_01]: programs that are out there, right?

33:41.242 --> 33:53.049
[SPEAKER_01]: We either we have firms data with NASA, you know, or the no idea of the fires on the infrared stuff, you know, but what we're really not realizing is that, even though you can see it on your screen, there's a massive latency issue.

33:53.530 --> 33:56.251
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a massive, because it's got to go back in the systems.

33:56.271 --> 33:57.632
[SPEAKER_01]: They do the post processing.

33:57.652 --> 34:04.336
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why that deliverable on hotspot is like three, six hours, you know, when, from when the satellite passes over 20

34:05.817 --> 34:17.368
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get some changes, and you're going to get those changes, but really the gap to fill is the take, being able to ingest that data stream, you know, effectively, but also being able to collect locally as well.

34:17.888 --> 34:28.018
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when you're able to put those together and be able to utilize that data in a form of a way, you're able to start creating a bit of a productive environment based on real-time data, you know, that's happening on the ground.

34:28.758 --> 34:36.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, you know, although we look at these dashboards and keep in mind, only if you have internet, you know, you're going to see that sort of stuff, right?

34:37.404 --> 34:56.376
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just say in a blackout environment, you know, the indigenous communities, the local, you know, smaller resources, the businesses, all these other things, you know, all these other groups that would be onlookers, you know, still the latency gets exponentially larger, you know, from even that emergency management groups, right, to when the average

34:57.637 --> 35:04.883
[SPEAKER_01]: or when, you know, any of these, you know, kind of two-share groups, you know, are far, for finding out about this information.

35:05.523 --> 35:19.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Here in lies, the chaos gap of, you know, the rumor mills, the misinformation that we're seeing on social media, you know, we're anti-sindies in Nova Scotia, regurgitating something from her 80-year-old sister, you know, who lives locally there, right?

35:20.034 --> 35:21.255
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's the telephone game.

35:21.295 --> 35:22.816
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we can't even play the telephone game

35:26.038 --> 35:29.961
[SPEAKER_01]: 30 years old sitting in the same room with each other, let alone over a social media platform, right?

35:30.161 --> 35:34.485
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really that latency gap on delivering real information.

35:34.785 --> 35:40.089
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's also augmented with that general overview open source data streams.

35:40.289 --> 35:42.651
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to give us the best, you know, on site.

35:42.671 --> 35:44.012
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a tactical two-acre communication.

35:44.492 --> 35:46.633
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for opening up that little rabbit hole for me.

35:46.653 --> 35:47.313
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll take this one.

35:47.333 --> 35:48.074
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.

35:48.994 --> 35:50.355
[SPEAKER_03]: So here's today's reality.

35:50.415 --> 36:01.580
[SPEAKER_03]: If we have that 8.8 earthquake off the west coast of British Columbia or North America for that matter, and it creates some tsunami threat and some earthquake damage, here's what's going to happen.

36:03.679 --> 36:08.403
[SPEAKER_03]: The province of British Columbia is going to try and gather up a whole bunch of information.

36:09.023 --> 36:10.565
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got a new work chart for this by the way.

36:10.665 --> 36:15.068
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think when I looked at it last, it was something like 500 functions.

36:15.909 --> 36:18.831
[SPEAKER_03]: So somehow they're going to have to try and figure out how to populate all these functions.

36:19.092 --> 36:23.635
[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't mean 500 bombs in the seats, but it's going to be a lot of bombs in seats to get that happening.

36:23.976 --> 36:28.920
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're going to have to try and figure out how to get all those people into play and where to put them in all this kind of stuff, right?

36:34.003 --> 36:38.829
[SPEAKER_03]: the best trusted source of information that can get, which will be the local government.

36:39.550 --> 36:47.560
[SPEAKER_03]: The local government will be gathering this information for the most part manually, particularly if they're calm systems, you know, the internet, all that stuff is down.

36:47.940 --> 36:49.362
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's going to be people out there.

36:50.478 --> 37:07.736
[SPEAKER_03]: radioing in with their seeing through the simplex channels taking pictures writing notes and processing that and coming back in and all the same time there's going to be all the chaos around first response saving lives putting out fires stopping the gas explosion all that stuff it's kind of going on.

37:08.697 --> 37:13.079
[SPEAKER_03]: So the province is not going to get really, really good, reliable intel.

37:13.319 --> 37:13.539
[SPEAKER_03]: Quick.

37:14.140 --> 37:20.583
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm going to say several operational periods because the communication systems are so fragmented.

37:20.603 --> 37:20.903
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

37:20.923 --> 37:25.265
[SPEAKER_03]: So all these different municipalities have their own licensed radio frequencies.

37:25.345 --> 37:28.086
[SPEAKER_03]: And some will have mutual aid and frequency sharing.

37:28.146 --> 37:30.947
[SPEAKER_03]: But you look at some of the police and the military organizations.

37:31.287 --> 37:32.748
[SPEAKER_03]: They do not share their frequencies.

37:32.828 --> 37:33.148
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

37:33.428 --> 37:33.989
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

37:34.149 --> 37:34.269
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

37:34.709 --> 37:42.496
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so even to some of the paramilitary supports still won't have other responder agency frequencies, right?

37:42.516 --> 37:50.143
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're all going to be sitting there talking on their own radios and maybe maybe they're texting or or phoning if they've got sad phones or what have you, right?

37:50.323 --> 37:50.463
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

37:50.483 --> 37:54.326
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's going to be a big, big vacuum of information.

37:54.927 --> 37:58.089
[SPEAKER_03]: So what are the impact of people are going to do if they don't have good information?

37:59.033 --> 37:59.734
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to panic.

37:59.814 --> 37:59.994
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

38:00.214 --> 38:01.115
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to make shit up.

38:01.295 --> 38:08.880
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to panic and a lack of information and panic eventually leads to chaos.

38:09.020 --> 38:12.843
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not going to call it energy, but there's going to be a lot going on.

38:12.863 --> 38:13.563
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we see it.

38:13.604 --> 38:15.265
[SPEAKER_01]: We see it even in the shoe swap, right?

38:15.305 --> 38:17.106
[SPEAKER_01]: But like you got disobedience happening.

38:17.586 --> 38:19.608
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not about malicious disobedience.

38:19.748 --> 38:21.569
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about like people want to protect their homes.

38:21.609 --> 38:22.210
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to stay.

38:22.230 --> 38:25.132
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to fight, you know, for what they've worked so hard to protect.

38:25.872 --> 38:31.634
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, looking back on that event, you know, we got a lot of optics, you know, that are folks on this.

38:31.734 --> 38:42.536
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has a phone, everybody's filming, you know, like, and, you know, these, these new, news articles again, no, you know, and you got, you know, RCMP opened up water tanks and pointed out inside the road.

38:42.557 --> 38:45.297
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the optics of that nobody gets the full picture.

38:45.737 --> 38:47.978
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you got these competing kind of like,

38:48.478 --> 38:57.185
[SPEAKER_01]: the public versus the government, you know, that starts forming, you know, in those events, and then you get all this fallout that comes from it, which was actually all unintentional.

38:57.385 --> 39:03.690
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, nobody was actually meaning any maliciousness, but nobody has the full picture, which they create the picture in their own mind.

39:03.730 --> 39:04.911
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't getting the information.

39:04.951 --> 39:06.272
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't getting the information.

39:06.372 --> 39:14.278
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we go back into, you know, what is, um, and the utilization, let's just, let's step into this for a second.

39:14.298 --> 39:15.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's look back on hindsight, you know,

39:16.660 --> 39:40.539
[SPEAKER_01]: in to a lot of these different events that have happened or even what we're kind of seeing what could happen down the road here was certain events like the big one, you know, the need for a global multi, you know, multi user coordination system or being able to have a baseline, you know, for all these different groups, like we use the earthquake, for example, in what we're talking to in Vancouver.

39:41.359 --> 40:08.492
[SPEAKER_01]: should everybody be ready on a universal system, you know, they do their day-to-day operations and their own silos and their own operations business is usual and they're able to utilize these tools and technologies to enhance their capabilities, whether it's a, you know, the police using a do-in-a-body search and a riverbed or, you know, you got K9, you know, hunting down somebody or, you know, you're basically trying to coordinate off a, uh, uh, a trade and do-realment in a certain community, you know, and you're trying to control that access control, whatever it may be.

40:08.912 --> 40:33.418
[SPEAKER_01]: the emergency management groups out there are always coming together you know to try to manage those small little events and they're always looking for a better way to do what they do exactly and then you talk about like we talk about the big event here right and if they had the ability to just simply with one switch of a finger all share that data on a universal common operating picture but also be able to connect their communications or they're already kind of prepared with

40:34.442 --> 40:43.545
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, is to have their, their comms, not inside of their communications infrastructure they have right now, but they're able to connect through to our digital, you know, a digital universal platform.

40:43.685 --> 40:43.886
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

40:44.166 --> 40:52.069
[SPEAKER_01]: They would be able to communicate, uh, from the incident commander who's there all the way down to, you know, to police, to logistics, to safety, all the other things.

40:52.749 --> 41:01.292
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we are talking about these big events happening, you know, the first thing that should be established out of the gate before you even put your boots on, do we have comms?

41:01.960 --> 41:02.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have communications?

41:03.182 --> 41:05.965
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that communications redundant that even

41:06.885 --> 41:10.788
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when a topic bomb, you know, or what wouldn't disrupt it, right?

41:10.828 --> 41:14.410
[SPEAKER_01]: Or every what is our primary secondary and tertiary communications platform.

41:15.230 --> 41:28.859
[SPEAKER_01]: That is going to allow us in in my opinion is going to allow us to better, you know, coordinate and connect and to be able to effectively roll out a resources and roll out our systems, you know, and we go back to the Jasper, the Jasper event itself.

41:28.919 --> 41:32.061
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I talked about it before, had everybody seen what was

41:35.887 --> 41:41.955
[SPEAKER_01]: What we're talking about, that's basic communication, both by voice and text data, where, you know, packet data.

41:42.136 --> 41:44.900
[SPEAKER_01]: And imagery, imagery, imagery, yeah, all that, all that package do.

41:45.360 --> 41:46.061
[SPEAKER_03]: So cool.

41:46.081 --> 41:49.766
[SPEAKER_03]: You asked a moment ago, what, what, my recommendation be.

41:50.287 --> 41:52.029
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, first of all, that personal preparedness thing.

41:52.130 --> 41:52.350
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean,

41:53.451 --> 41:54.432
[SPEAKER_03]: Surprise, surprise, folks.

41:54.493 --> 41:55.834
[SPEAKER_03]: You own that part of it.

41:55.914 --> 41:56.275
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

41:56.475 --> 41:59.458
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't get yourself prepared, that's on you.

41:59.518 --> 42:02.862
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not on the local government or any other agency that way.

42:02.902 --> 42:04.925
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so get prepared.

42:04.965 --> 42:05.666
[SPEAKER_03]: That part is easy.

42:06.266 --> 42:06.426
[SPEAKER_03]: But...

42:07.541 --> 42:19.426
[SPEAKER_03]: what we really need to start working on is somehow getting our government agencies to the point where they embrace the innovations that are out there because what we're talking about right now is the solution.

42:19.666 --> 42:20.246
[SPEAKER_03]: It exists.

42:20.586 --> 42:21.006
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what?

42:21.347 --> 42:21.727
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it.

42:22.407 --> 42:27.229
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not some brand new technology that just fell out of the sky or out of the cyber.

42:27.309 --> 42:28.269
[SPEAKER_03]: I've battlefield proven.

42:28.369 --> 42:28.850
[SPEAKER_03]: You bet.

42:28.930 --> 42:32.951
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been proven for a couple of decades now at least at least in the early stages of it.

42:33.611 --> 42:36.853
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is being embraced by emergency managers and responder agencies and stuff.

42:37.845 --> 42:46.293
[SPEAKER_03]: But my experience, at least in the government agencies that I worked in, was that they tend to wait until somebody else is proven it out or pawn it.

42:46.753 --> 42:48.234
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it becomes a really good idea.

42:48.254 --> 42:50.696
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's a new innovation and it's their innovation.

42:50.897 --> 42:51.057
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

42:51.417 --> 42:53.459
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they don't fully embrace the,

42:55.080 --> 42:57.422
[SPEAKER_03]: The value and the strength of the private sector.

42:57.442 --> 43:05.228
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean we're we can be innovative if I want to spend a hundred thousand dollars to more and build an AI agent And I got the money to do it.

43:05.428 --> 43:16.837
[SPEAKER_03]: I can yeah, I don't need to get some IT shop Saying no because that's not the way we do it or yeah by letting some policy right so the governments need to be a little more innovative because I mean these are

43:17.658 --> 43:33.871
[SPEAKER_03]: drastic times, like, you know, the last 10 or 20 years just the frequency and the magnitude in the scope and scale of natural disasters alone, not to mention economic or cyber any of the other stuff, but just the natural disasters alone, they're growing in orders of magnitude.

43:34.271 --> 43:36.954
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the same time, the populations are growing, right?

43:37.574 --> 43:52.378
[SPEAKER_01]: So on decentralizing nature because as soon as we start siloing we start holding on to one thing that only we can use because we're a better emergency management group than our neighbor you know and and it becomes once you bring ego into it.

43:52.778 --> 44:03.604
[SPEAKER_01]: and you bring all these human emotional conflicts, you know, into who's better at doing what and where and, you know, this police agency's better than this one and this fire department, this, these guys got more budget, that's the other thing too.

44:03.964 --> 44:07.847
[SPEAKER_01]: A budget is a major major factor in what types of tools and technologies you can get.

44:07.887 --> 44:15.571
[SPEAKER_01]: Big barrier, but to be able to access something that's agnostic and is available to everyone no matter what they're watching.

44:16.231 --> 44:25.993
[SPEAKER_01]: That is equally important because, you know, we need to get past this human element of mind mind mind mind You know, yeah, and it's yeah, this is all of ours, right?

44:26.093 --> 44:30.214
[SPEAKER_03]: So we just had a good conversation with our friend Sean Tronson from Splatzene.

44:30.454 --> 44:30.815
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

44:31.575 --> 44:41.997
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's one of his biggest challenges is he's trying to get everybody to play together in the same sandbox, not just within his community But everybody and he's making some really good progress on that too, right?

44:45.858 --> 45:01.907
[SPEAKER_03]: to get rid of that mindset of, this is mine, this is my jurisdiction, you know, I'm just looking after this and he looks at it on a more holistic sort of, this is our planet, it's providing for all of us to survive.

45:01.927 --> 45:02.207
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

45:02.707 --> 45:03.849
[SPEAKER_03]: we need to be looking at it that way.

45:03.909 --> 45:07.654
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, it's going to take them a while to get to that because of course.

45:07.874 --> 45:08.295
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

45:08.415 --> 45:10.998
[SPEAKER_03]: But nonetheless, you know, the fees were even just like somebody else will pick it up.

45:11.038 --> 45:11.919
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in a trail man.

45:11.939 --> 45:13.021
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where he is.

45:13.041 --> 45:15.765
[SPEAKER_01]: It goes people are, you know, and, but I think I.

45:16.737 --> 45:18.078
[SPEAKER_01]: We're having the conversation right now.

45:18.098 --> 45:18.918
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's important.

45:19.018 --> 45:21.940
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think even with John or anybody else who we've chatted with.

45:22.400 --> 45:26.462
[SPEAKER_01]: We're having the conversation about, you know, the evolution of the emergency management space.

45:27.303 --> 45:31.965
[SPEAKER_01]: We simply need to break down, especially at the agency level, you know, the agency level.

45:31.985 --> 45:40.070
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to understand that this is this needs a good look at the decentralized nature of what we're doing.

45:40.710 --> 45:48.041
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be able to, you know, obviously adopt that type of thought process, you know, of how do we decentralize, you know, the control and the command on this thing.

45:49.343 --> 45:53.930
[SPEAKER_01]: To allow the emergency management groups to do what they still do, that this doesn't change anything.

45:54.070 --> 45:56.454
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not looking to change any of the structure and other stuff.

45:56.974 --> 46:03.559
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to open up that conversation about enhancement and augmentation of utilizing these technologies.

46:03.579 --> 46:13.728
[SPEAKER_01]: So when the big one does hit, you know, and then are you believe, you know, whether it's tomorrow or it's at 100 years from now, you know, we should be able to, we have plenty of warning.

46:14.528 --> 46:22.251
[SPEAKER_01]: Plenty of understanding is going to look like we even have the data and the information to show marginally what it's going to look like in a simulated environment.

46:23.252 --> 46:30.715
[SPEAKER_01]: There's lots of good tools we need to bring all the pillars up at the same time in order for us all to meet together on the same foundation, you know, in order to

46:31.835 --> 46:37.277
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, to collaborate together and to create it, communications has got to be there.

46:38.157 --> 46:39.017
[SPEAKER_03]: It has to be there.

46:40.077 --> 46:43.998
[SPEAKER_03]: I look to an example from the special operations in the military, right?

46:44.519 --> 46:52.701
[SPEAKER_03]: So you've got some pretty strict rigid hierarchical, command and control structure in the military, right?

46:53.461 --> 46:56.562
[SPEAKER_03]: And by design and necessity, that's the way it is.

46:57.723 --> 47:09.209
[SPEAKER_03]: But when you give the special operators the tools and you put them out into a very austere dynamic and often unknown environment, they're empowered to make the best decision they can like that.

47:09.730 --> 47:15.293
[SPEAKER_03]: And the only way they can do that is if they've got more information than the enemy, that's right.

47:15.633 --> 47:22.437
[SPEAKER_03]: So the only way they can get that information is through the integration of all these different sources of information and data,

47:23.237 --> 47:28.559
[SPEAKER_03]: and common communications so they're talking to whoever they need to talk to you reliably all the time That's right.

47:29.279 --> 47:38.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and and and in the same's like a simple win in the same light You know, that's a lot of lessons that we're learning from you know even the being the defense actor right in the battlefield

47:38.843 --> 47:42.165
[SPEAKER_01]: is there's a reason why, you know, we call it the disaster field, right?

47:42.226 --> 47:48.430
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about preparing, you know, we have our own battlefields, you know, figuratively here when it comes to protect our own.

47:48.450 --> 47:53.153
[SPEAKER_01]: We, there's our home, our communities, our cities, you know, our municipalities, you name it.

47:54.093 --> 47:57.735
[SPEAKER_01]: Indigenous communities, everybody has their own disaster field, right?

47:57.755 --> 48:05.078
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's about preparing the disaster field, it's about responding in that disaster field according to plan and trying to manage that plan.

48:05.399 --> 48:07.280
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a recovery of the disaster field.

48:07.320 --> 48:08.660
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we build back?

48:08.740 --> 48:15.824
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we put in the proper, you know, the things in a place in order to be able to build back?

48:15.884 --> 48:19.425
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, with the context of the common language,

48:23.806 --> 48:45.338
[SPEAKER_01]: that the big one, whether it hits or not, you know, whether we have a major welfare like we've seen in LA, you know, and the big flash floods in Texas, I think getting out of that mindset is an individual, you know, that won't happen to me, or hopefully it doesn't happen to me, you know, I get another year, I'll get another year with not having to, you know, buy some rations and spend a little bit of that extra money.

48:45.798 --> 48:50.601
[SPEAKER_01]: This, it won't happen to me, mentalities, the people that get most shocked, you know, when it does happen to them.

48:52.822 --> 48:56.503
[SPEAKER_01]: the the main thing to take back is whether you're an agency or you're an individual.

48:57.103 --> 49:02.585
[SPEAKER_01]: You are the best first line of protection for your in immediate area for your disaster.

49:02.605 --> 49:04.405
[SPEAKER_01]: For your disaster.

49:04.585 --> 49:08.727
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's about empowering the individual to be able to get that communication flowing.

49:08.907 --> 49:10.027
[SPEAKER_01]: You're quickly and effectively.

49:10.945 --> 49:19.452
[SPEAKER_01]: And having these conversations, you know, about events like this, you know, the one that just woke us up 8.8 earthquake in Russia, and it's not far away.

49:19.872 --> 49:25.116
[SPEAKER_03]: So just let me, uh, put this one out there for people to kind of reflect on a little bit.

49:25.836 --> 49:33.042
[SPEAKER_03]: Go back to the LA fires in January, which is an unusual time of year for that type of fire behavior down there, but it's our new reality, okay?

49:34.219 --> 49:42.725
[SPEAKER_03]: What if the cascadious subduction zone had gone off and even a seven or an eight point Richter scale evaded happened somewhere off the west coast of California?

49:42.745 --> 49:43.245
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

49:43.645 --> 49:46.728
[SPEAKER_03]: The impacts on California, they were already strapped.

49:48.005 --> 50:10.304
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... at the local government level at the county level at the state level and somewhat uh... regionally western united states level right like everybody was engaged on that stuff i mean we've been sent folks from candidate and up down to help out right in some mid-teens and stuff so now you throw a nice big earthquake on top of that and you've just like we saw what back in the uh... the eighties early eighties i think it was uh... the l.a.

50:10.324 --> 50:15.168
[SPEAKER_03]: earthquake you know we saw uh... chunks of highway expressway fallen down course

50:15.448 --> 50:19.212
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, big cracks in all the highways, buildings down, all this sort of stuff, right?

50:19.532 --> 50:25.198
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just in New Zealand here on South Island here, a couple of years ago.

50:26.039 --> 50:30.924
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can still see residuals from the bigger earthquake that hit.

50:31.563 --> 50:41.506
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it happens on a microscopic level too, like Edson Alberta, you know, they had a wildfire, wildfire, and then all of a sudden the day later they had a massive flood.

50:41.866 --> 50:41.986
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:42.006 --> 50:46.348
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden they went back to wildfire again two days after the flood, you know, they were pumping out bases.

50:46.648 --> 50:47.708
[SPEAKER_01]: It was wild, right?

50:47.748 --> 50:51.869
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a small little town in central north Alberta, you know, that's.

50:53.150 --> 50:59.291
[SPEAKER_01]: You would never even guess that that would be the place that these conflicting disasters are happening at the exact same time, right?

51:02.390 --> 51:03.411
[SPEAKER_03]: just there a few weeks ago.

51:04.172 --> 51:05.173
[SPEAKER_01]: Shout out to Isabelle.

51:05.273 --> 51:06.094
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's it.

51:06.214 --> 51:08.676
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, I mean, we could be this one to death.

51:08.777 --> 51:08.977
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

51:09.357 --> 51:10.959
[SPEAKER_03]: But, but here's the reality.

51:11.399 --> 51:13.621
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some very real threats and earthquake.

51:14.362 --> 51:17.405
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to add multiple event types at the same time.

51:17.625 --> 51:17.886
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.

51:18.266 --> 51:24.889
[SPEAKER_03]: So earthquake hits, but now all of a sudden you've got major gas explosions or major tank farms leaking oil or better it.

51:24.929 --> 51:41.138
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever they got that kind of that's a reality that's not just an extreme pine the sky guess that I mean that is kind of the reality of what will happen and I honestly don't think where it's prepared as we need to be for all that sort of stuff and to me that biggest gap is

51:42.198 --> 51:45.705
[SPEAKER_03]: the missing communications and drop ability that feeds the situation.

51:45.745 --> 51:46.125
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

51:46.306 --> 51:46.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:46.586 --> 51:47.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

51:47.648 --> 51:54.982
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, it's as we as we move forward, you know, the, you know, the next episode's going to be really interesting because, you know,

51:55.503 --> 52:00.164
[SPEAKER_01]: it'll get into some of the nitty-gritty of some of the new battlefield proven technologies and that sort of stuff.

52:00.224 --> 52:11.027
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's one thing to take away here is just you are your best first-line to defense like stand up and be that best protector for your business, for your home, for your family.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We get involved, like get involved, you know, a lot of these different groups, you know, volunteer groups, whether it's a NGO or it's, you know, it's, you know, your your

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, get involved, get involved with the solution.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so here's the simple law saying food I can think of.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Anybody who might be a threat from wildfire.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Take that same amount of energy that you put into maintaining your lawn and your garden and your shrubs and your flowers and turn that over into firesmarting your place.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And once you've firesmarted your place,

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[SPEAKER_03]: Then it becomes a maintenance thing like it's just like cutting the lawn, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, once or twice a year, you're raking needles and leaves up with that kind of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too hard to get to, but it just stares my imagination.

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[SPEAKER_03]: How many people just won't do it?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because it will never happen to me or the government's always going to be there to save me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, here you go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Folks, I'm just here to tell you that that is not always going to be the case.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, all we can do is fight forward.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There we go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, man.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good clue.